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Author Topic: Armor as related to hull  (Read 992 times)

kanliot

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Armor as related to hull
« on: January 28, 2023, 07:38:59 PM »

after reading https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Armor which links to   Conquest appreciation thread (0.95.1a)

I still don't understand armor damage.   On the part of the HUD that shows the armor, you can see where the armor is gone, and ofc, at the center of the ship, it's bright yellow for some reason.

I believe that once the armor is gone, the hull can take full damage, no matter if you hit close to the yellow, or on the edge- as long as the armor is gone, you're doing full damage.   Also, armor has no real secondary benefit. If your hull is fine, you shouldn't worry about losing armor.   However, if your armor is gone- say on an Onslaught, you're going to start taking full hull damage.

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2023, 07:45:37 PM by kanliot »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2023, 07:51:17 PM »

Armor continues providing 5% of its value to reducing damage even after it has been stripped in a spot. Continuing the wiki's example with a 100 strength energy weapon vs 100 armor, if it hit a spot where the armor had been wiped it would still only do 100 / (5 + 100) = ~95 damage to hull. Against a stripped 1700 armor ship it would only do 54 damage.

So stripped armor acts as a hull multiplier.
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kanliot

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2023, 07:13:43 AM »

watching on youtube, I have an imagination.

here's how it might work currently.   Armor prevents damage from going to the yellow center mass portions of the ship.  The center mass is colored like a heatmap, and those parts of the hull have have leverage, as hits to the yellow bits cause more hull damage, as they represent more HP of the hull.  So armor does have a function, it protects the high value hull pixels.  Also hits to this valued part have a chance to cause magazine explosions with screen flash.  This explains why sometimes lucky shots to center mass result in fast kills.   This doesn't explain how hits disable weapons, but w/e.
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SCC

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2023, 08:11:12 AM »

Also hits to this valued part have a chance to cause magazine explosions with screen flash.  This explains why sometimes lucky shots to center mass result in fast kills.
There is no such mechanic. Ships bigger than frigates always blow up with a white flash, whether they're disabled or destroyed. There are no critical hits in the game, either. If a weapon deals more damage than on the tooltip, it's only because of ship systems and skills affecting either the shooter or the target.
This doesn't explain how hits disable weapons, but w/e.
Weapons have their own hitpoints, though I don't remember the numbers. They are damaged by damaging the armour cell those weapons are on.

kanliot

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2023, 05:35:20 PM »

There is no such mechanic. Ships bigger than frigates always blow up with a white flash, whether they're disabled or destroyed. There are no critical hits in the game, either.

That's not what i've seen.  I've seen white flashes happening, without destroying the ship.   Also, using missiles and reaper torps, I've noticed an incredible spread of hull damage caused by these weapons-that doesn't seem to be explained by armor.

So I'm saying when armor is blown away from the core, your torpedos might do more than if armor is completely blown away from the edge.   If what you're saying is true, then it doesn't matter matter what part of the ship you hit, if it's stripped of armor, it will do equal damage.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 05:37:03 PM by kanliot »
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Vanshilar

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2023, 06:15:07 PM »

That's not what i've seen.  I've seen white flashes happening, without destroying the ship.

That's likely the remnants of destroyed hulks disappearing. When the broken bits of destroyed ships disappear, they flash white temporarily. It's somewhat different than the ship blowing up flash.

Also, using missiles and reaper torps, I've noticed an incredible spread of hull damage caused by these weapons-that doesn't seem to be explained by armor.

There are a lot of factors affecting the damage that's taken. CR, officer skills, etc. of both the target and the firing ship. For example, the Damage Control skill not only means -25% hull damage taken, but if the target happens to have the elite effect, then the amount above 500 is reduced by 60%.

So I'm saying when armor is blown away from the core, your torpedos might do more than if armor is completely blown away from the edge.   If what you're saying is true, then it doesn't matter matter what part of the ship you hit, if it's stripped of armor, it will do equal damage.

No, it doesn't matter where the shot hits, whether in the center or at the edge, it just depends on the armor cells at that location and the cells around it. The ship has invisible cells that exist past the visible boundary so that the math works out that this is the case. They're not shown on the HUD (which only shows the part that's inside the ship sprite) but they do exist.
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Alex

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2023, 06:17:18 PM »

That's not what i've seen.  I've seen white flashes happening, without destroying the ship.

That could just be from the impact of a kinetic weapon on hull? Those tend to have white hit glows/flashes.

That's likely the remnants of destroyed hulks disappearing. When the broken bits of destroyed ships disappear, they flash white temporarily. It's somewhat different than the ship blowing up flash.

(This seems like either a mod feature, or some kind of graphics driver bug! Nothing like that in vanilla, at least if I'm understanding your description right.)
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Vanshilar

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Re: Armor as related to hull
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2023, 06:57:44 PM »

That's likely the remnants of destroyed hulks disappearing. When the broken bits of destroyed ships disappear, they flash white temporarily. It's somewhat different than the ship blowing up flash.

(This seems like either a mod feature, or some kind of graphics driver bug! Nothing like that in vanilla, at least if I'm understanding your description right.)

Oh huh interesting! Digging into this further, it turns out that this is from "enableExplosionEffects" in GRAPHICS_OPTIONS.ini from the GraphicsLib mod. When that's disabled, then the hulks simply disappear.

The only other flash effects I can think of offhand are EMP arcs or the flashes when the hull takes damage, though those are more orange/yellow.
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