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Author Topic: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option  (Read 801 times)

tomatopaste

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Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« on: January 06, 2023, 01:45:01 AM »

The current SMOD implementation of building in mods with an arbitrary token is not very interesting. Why should a brand new ship printed off the production line be able to install hullmods for no cost? "Story point" hullmods should be reserved for ships that have distinguished themselves in battle and have the battle scars necessary to allow the extensive conversion and intrusive maintenance to justify the installation of SMODS, where enterprising engineers can find an opportunity to make an aftermarket modification an intrinsic part of the ship's identity.

Hence my idea is to add an additional dialog to post-battle salvage where ships have a chance to be eligible for removing the OP cost of one of their installed hullmods and making it a permanent SMOD on the ship hull. Commanding officers can increase the chance significantly. I think this will go a long way to making SMODS feel a lot more like the player writing their own story instead of being a generic premium currency for making ships more powerful.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 01:49:01 AM by tomatopaste »
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Grievous69

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2023, 03:27:11 AM »

Please no more mod ideas for base game, it already went too far. I don't want a newly bought or salvaged ship to be gimped for 10 battles or so. Only thing this does is increase save scumming even more for a bit more flavour. Not to mention the boring grind.
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tomatopaste

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2023, 04:05:38 AM »

Please no more mod ideas for base game, it already went too far. I don't want a newly bought or salvaged ship to be gimped for 10 battles or so. Only thing this does is increase save scumming even more for a bit more flavour. Not to mention the boring grind.

This is a joke right
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Grievous69

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2023, 04:26:15 AM »

Please no more mod ideas for base game, it already went too far. I don't want a newly bought or salvaged ship to be gimped for 10 battles or so. Only thing this does is increase save scumming even more for a bit more flavour. Not to mention the boring grind.

This is a joke right
No.

How did we went from extra OP to a system where you need to spend semi limited currency on every combat ship just to keep up, now introducing various bonuses and penalties depending on OP cost (which seems like a nightmare to balance, and is inherently screwing some hullmods), and now you asked if I was joking to your suggestion of adding a grind layer to this onion.

There really is a point where enough is enough, I don't mind complexity and depth. But this is turning out to be a clown fiesta of needless mechanics. By 1.0 we're going to be playing 15 different minigames just to get into a fight and modify our fleet.

If you think I'm overreacting, look at the new Graviton Beam and Missile Autoloader hullmod - where I wasn't negative. This is just too much now for a simple job of outfitting a ship. May god have mercy on new players.
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tomatopaste

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2023, 04:36:47 AM »

Please no more mod ideas for base game, it already went too far. I don't want a newly bought or salvaged ship to be gimped for 10 battles or so. Only thing this does is increase save scumming even more for a bit more flavour. Not to mention the boring grind.

This is a joke right
No.

How did we went from extra OP to a system where you need to spend semi limited currency on every combat ship just to keep up, now introducing various bonuses and penalties depending on OP cost (which seems like a nightmare to balance, and is inherently screwing some hullmods), and now you asked if I was joking to your suggestion of adding a grind layer to this onion.

There really is a point where enough is enough, I don't mind complexity and depth. But this is turning out to be a clown fiesta of needless mechanics. By 1.0 we're going to be playing 15 different minigames just to get into a fight and modify our fleet.

If you think I'm overreacting, look at the new Graviton Beam and Missile Autoloader hullmod - where I wasn't negative. This is just too much now for a simple job of outfitting a ship. May god have mercy on new players.

If you think that ships need 3 smods to be automatically combat viable then you are sadly mistaken. Modded opinions don't matter in this post, this is in regard to the vanilla game only.

Another important point to make is that this makes late game battles more interesting for the player since they exist as an opportunity to gain SMODS, instead of spending hardly a thought to put heavy armour, expanded missile racks and integrated targeting unit on 3 new cruisers.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 04:42:25 AM by tomatopaste »
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Grievous69

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2023, 04:38:37 AM »

I never even picked up the skill to have 3 s-mods...

And I play exclusively vanilla so no clue what you're smoking.

EDIT: My point was it reduces fleet experimentation. Why would I replace a ship with 2 s-mods with a brand new one which will have to get used in many battles just so it can reach the power level of the previous one and ONLY THEN can I tell was it worth the change.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 04:40:50 AM by Grievous69 »
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tomatopaste

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2023, 04:45:18 AM »

I never even picked up the skill to have 3 s-mods...

And I play exclusively vanilla so no clue what you're smoking.

EDIT: My point was it reduces fleet experimentation. Why would I replace a ship with 2 s-mods with a brand new one which will have to get used in many battles just so it can reach the power level of the previous one and ONLY THEN can I tell was it worth the change.

You are still missing the entire point of the post. SMODS should not be "hullmods but free" like you are assuming. They should be a scarce resource that can be desired during a playthrough, much like finding an officer with many skills. The idea is to make them more of a story element rather than another aspect of outfitting a new ship.
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Grievous69

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2023, 04:48:18 AM »

You are still missing the entire point of the post. SMODS should not be "hullmods but free" like you are assuming. They should be a scarce resource that can be desired during a playthrough, much like finding an officer with many skills. The idea is to make them more of a story element rather than another aspect of outfitting a new ship.
My brother in Christ they are literally a replacement for old Loadout Design 3. Your head canon of game elements doesn't mean the game should work like that.
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tomatopaste

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2023, 04:51:29 AM »

You are still missing the entire point of the post. SMODS should not be "hullmods but free" like you are assuming. They should be a scarce resource that can be desired during a playthrough, much like finding an officer with many skills. The idea is to make them more of a story element rather than another aspect of outfitting a new ship.
My brother in Christ they are literally a replacement for old Loadout Design 3. Your head canon of game elements doesn't mean the game should work like that.

no clue what you're smoking.
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FooF

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2023, 08:19:27 AM »

S Mods don’t need any more prerequisites. I get what you’re saying but there’s a mod that makes each ship earn its own XP and “grow”, which I think gets to your suggestion more than a waiting some arbitrary period for S Mods.
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Megas

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2023, 10:30:37 AM »

Grinding for new officers (after firing old ones that became obsolete after a fleet change) is already obnoxious.  I do not want to do the same for new ships too.

The only upside to s-mods over old Tech skills is more OP is not bound to a must-have skill.  Other than that, I am not fond of s-mods on ships because they become less disposable.
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Alex

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2023, 10:59:09 AM »

FWIW, my initial thought about this was to have the bonuses improve as the ship gains experience - sort of a "feel more attached to the ship" sort of thing. But I think this really needs to be something that feels good to do at loadout time, and "oh I built this in and now I have to wait a long time for the bonus" just doesn't cut it.

Which isn't exactly what's being suggested here, but, the larger point is that I think s-mods should be a fun ship loadout thing. Ships gaining some kind of bonus from being battle-scarred and such is a nice idea, but it seems really difficult to pull off. Either you get random bonuses and some flavor of save-scumming (torpedoing your own ships to battle-scar them, perhaps? :D), or it's a grind to feel like your ships are up to snuff. It seems troublesome!
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Comrade_Bobinski

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2023, 11:48:10 AM »

FWIW, my initial thought about this was to have the bonuses improve as the ship gains experience - sort of a "feel more attached to the ship" sort of thing. But I think this really needs to be something that feels good to do at loadout time, and "oh I built this in and now I have to wait a long time for the bonus" just doesn't cut it.

Which isn't exactly what's being suggested here, but, the larger point is that I think s-mods should be a fun ship loadout thing. Ships gaining some kind of bonus from being battle-scarred and such is a nice idea, but it seems really difficult to pull off. Either you get random bonuses and some flavor of save-scumming (torpedoing your own ships to battle-scar them, perhaps? :D), or it's a grind to feel like your ships are up to snuff. It seems troublesome!

Rather than ship, maybe there is something to do with crews and their veterancy/experiences ? Maybe by using this neat system you talk into one of your devblog to improve fleet stat based on specific battles history ?
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BaBosa

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Re: Make SMODS a post-battle upgrade only option
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2023, 01:56:45 PM »

While Grievous69 is being very … abrasive. I do agree that adding a post battle requirement on top of story point cost for s-mod wouldn’t be a good idea. Just the story point cost alone is supposed to give it more meaning because they’re quite limited in supply unless you’re willing to grind and they have a significant opportunity cost so adding more requirements sounds frustrating rather than cool. Plus, I don’t think it’d actually feel better because most of the hullmods you’d build in are the same between ships so they won’t have much of a unique/special feel to them as I think you’re aiming for.
If you want that sort of thing then it really should be seperate from hullmods. Something like the starship legends mod, maybe with more options and variety.
Comrade_Bobinski’s idea honestly sounds perfect if it can work. If Alex doesn’t want to do it hopefully he’ll make it so modders can do it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 02:04:12 PM by BaBosa »
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