Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: The problem with the Radiant  (Read 4429 times)

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2022, 06:32:42 AM »

I'm pretty sure I've suggested this before, but I've always felt like there should be a 'be careful' order you can give to ships that are overextending, or that you can see are going to be in danger soon. Like an inverse of search and destroy, making the AI behavior less agressive. Something a bit less extreme than 'avoid', but in the same vein (maybe lowering the flux thresholds for backing off, and changing behavior in terms of what range bands the ship is trying to get into).  I feel like that could help when fighting radiants too. I sometime have to toggle avoid repeatedly to keep ships safe until I can maneuver my fleet for a proper engagement with a radiant.

I don't want the radiant massively changed or nerfed though. I find it to be an interesting challenge to fight it.
Logged

jwarper

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2022, 09:53:57 PM »

To me it sounds more like a problem with your own strategy than with the "endgame" ships themselves.  With command points and officered ships you should have no issues taking down Radiants.  They easily fall prey to wolf packs just like any large ship.  Know your enemy.  It has finite phase jumps, and it is very vulnerable to flanking ships.   Keep the radiant busy, take out its escorts and it becomes a large target unable to cope with multiple ships. 
Logged

Lortus

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2022, 10:03:19 AM »

If were to try piloting ships for a change I'm sure you would find more success.

If you are really spending the entire time in the command view I don't know how you could miss your ships becoming completely scattered.

Eliminate also does not do that.
Logged

SapphireSage

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2022, 10:17:44 AM »

I'm pretty sure I've suggested this before, but I've always felt like there should be a 'be careful' order you can give to ships that are overextending, or that you can see are going to be in danger soon. Like an inverse of search and destroy, making the AI behavior less agressive. Something a bit less extreme than 'avoid', but in the same vein (maybe lowering the flux thresholds for backing off, and changing behavior in terms of what range bands the ship is trying to get into).  I feel like that could help when fighting radiants too. I sometime have to toggle avoid repeatedly to keep ships safe until I can maneuver my fleet for a proper engagement with a radiant.

I wouldn't mind if there an an order that was similar to 'Avoid' but with a much lower range avoidance. Oftentimes, there are decent threats to my fleet in the enemy's that I want my fleet to "avoid" or handle with a specific team but using the avoid order makes it so that ship scatters my fleet to the four corners of the map because the range is so large. A "Caution" order that makes your ships more wary of a picked threat and more likely to back away from them at lower self-flux levels would be handy for those situations.
Logged

Salter

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2022, 04:11:23 PM »

The Radiant is pretty OP. In the players hands, you can mount it with cyclone reapers, tach lances & sabot pods and you can basically shoot down nearly everything in the game. Even fully armed remnant battlestations and elite remnants around the hypershunts have difficulty against them especially when supported by a real fleet. So the Radiant really is truly OP.
Logged

CapnHector

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1056
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2022, 02:40:17 AM »

As far as I can tell from farming Remnants for a while, there are two things that are "problematic" about the Radiant. I use the quotes because neither of these actually has to do with the ship itself.

Problem 1: Other Remnant ships are not threatening enough, so it feels like a large difficulty spike whenever the Radiant is around. Personal opinion: endgame fights should be challenging, so when the source of frustration is that their difficulty is inconsistent, the solution would be to buff other Remnant ships.

Problem 2: The AI seems particularly bad at dealing with the Radiant. It neither aggressively finishes the ship off when the ship is retreating unless the player intervenes, leading to Radiants with a sliver of hull remaining being allowed to retreat, recuperate, and return to decimate the fleet with their strong shields back up, nor is it wary of the swarm of Reaper torpedos that the Radiant can unleash at all - or at least the impression is constantly that the AI is not especially careful about them, so rather than avoiding impossible fights, tends to engage Radiant in presence of other ships, lose the flux war, and die to a swarm of Reapers, in a way that seems particularly stupid and frustrating from the player's perspective who will of course see that the enemy ship is menacing with Reaper launchers and that it is particularly important not to be in a position where you will lose the flux war against it. Again, though, this is a problem with the AI or even especially with player perceptions of what the AI should do rather than the Radiant; it should be fine to have agile ships with bursty damage. So the AI is either too cautious, or not cautious enough, depending on context, which of course seems like a slightly hard problem to correct. The latter "issue" could likely be partially fixed by just reducing the missile slots on the Radiant, buffing it otherwise to compensate, to make the deaths seem less stupid to the player. The former "issue" maybe by shifting its defenses more towards armor or, say, reducing shield arc or something to avoid the near-dead-Radiants still being entirely capable of killing everybody issue.
Logged
5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12159
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2022, 05:27:50 AM »

Many NPC Radiants have alpha cores.  Alpha cores makes Radiants strong.  Radiant without any core is not that overpowering.  If I send Radiant without core against an enemy, they die about as easily as another unofficered capital.  Even Gamma Radiant is not quite good enough against full Ordos fleets.

As for Neural Linked Radiant piloted by player, it is only overpowered if it has Systems Expertise to recharge the skimmer quickly enough for nearly at-will use.  Without the skimmer, it does not recharge fast enough, Radiant is horrifically slow and clumsy, and vulnerable to getting swarmed.  Even with near-unlimited skimmer, Neural Linked Radiant still seems less powerful than Ziggurat flagship, and Ziggurat does not need to dedicate as many skill points.

Radiant at 60 DP is roughly on par with Paragon if they have similar officer power.  Of course, enemy Radiants by endgame have that level 7 or 8 officer with all elite skills.  The biggest things going for Radiant over Paragon are missiles, skimmer, and more (elite) skills from AI core.  Paragon has shields and shot range.

@ CapnHector: Agreed on the two problems regarding Radiant.  The most annoying thing about Radiant is the ease it can run away when it loses the flux war.
Logged

Salter

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • View Profile
Re: The problem with the Radiant
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2022, 02:49:26 AM »

Maybe a solution to the fleets being too strong is to limit the number of cores any fleet can have at a given time like your fleet does? Granted if you face down three stacks of 10 Alpha AI's in each you are probably going to have to do some real fancy flying to not lose that fight anyways.

Player control radiant is kind of 'meh'. You really wanna fit it with an alpha core, which is sufficiently aggressive with the loadout I mentioned. S-mod expanded missile racks will essentially let the ship just spam as many missiles at it wants to it's hearts content. Usually if the torpedo's and the sabots dont pop the shield, the tach lances will maul it till it does and 5 tach lances to the shields of frigates or destroyers is usually a death sentence.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]