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Author Topic: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (08.11.22)  (Read 21313 times)

Lortus

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Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (08.11.22)
« on: October 31, 2022, 07:04:13 AM »

Ship Build Compendium
A list of usable ship builds

I've been sharing around ship builds from myself and others for a while and have gotten requests to compile them into an easy to access list for a while so here it is for those who were waiting.
If you are someone who wants to figure out the game for yourself I suggest you close the tab. If you don't think people should read a post like this then I also suggest you close the tab. It's probably not for you.

Builds are meant for general play. I'm sure there are better builds in some specific situations. Builds try to avoid smods.
If you have a better build than what is posted please don't hesitate to post here or @ me on discord @Lortus#8905. I am on Corvus and USC.

Optimal Builds
Spoiler
These ship builds are absolutely optimal for generalized play with no smods for the specific ship. I would be very pleasantly surprised if you could figure out something better.

Falcon P
Spoiler
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Builds
Spoiler
Frigates
Spoiler
Hound
Spoiler
Specifically for capturing a point ASAP and then suiciding to free up DP. Pretty nice point capper for pure Low tech or if you have a specific fleet that won't work with a point capper eating up DP.
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Centurion
Spoiler
Link the annihilator with another weapon group
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Brawler
Spoiler
Link the annihilators and the arbalests


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Vanguard
Spoiler
Standard


SO. With smods you can upgrade to LDMGs
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Monitor
Spoiler
SO


non SO
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Shade
Spoiler
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Afflictor
Spoiler
This is basically a bot for its system. Drop Flux Coil Adjunct and Unstable Injector for another AMB if you want it to do damage but also put itself in some danger.
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Tempest
Spoiler
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Scarab
Spoiler
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Hyperion
Spoiler
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Destroyers
Spoiler
Buffalo MkII
Spoiler
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Mule
Spoiler
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Shrike
Spoiler
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Enforcer
Spoiler
SO


non SO
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Condor
Spoiler
Bomber


Support w/ Thunders
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Hammerhead
Spoiler
Midrange Hammerhead. Uses CH to put itself ahead of most midrange hammerhead ships. Link the swarmers to the other guns.


Basically optimal most of the time.


More kinetic but worse against armor
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Sunder
Spoiler
SO


Beamder
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Medusa
Spoiler
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Manticore
Spoiler
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Cruisers
Spoiler
Venture
Spoiler
Support Brick


Frontline Brick
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Apogee
Spoiler
Can run a MIRV or Locust instead of Squall. Can run SO shenanigans if you want.
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Eradicator
Spoiler
SO


non SO
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Falcon P
Spoiler
Also in the optimal ships section


Funny player build
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Fury
Spoiler
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Gryphon
Spoiler
Needs a fleet


Does well on it's own.
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Heron
Spoiler
Oneshots destroyers
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Eagle
Spoiler
Midrange. Can run needlers instead of Arbalests if you smod


SO for player
Spoiler
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SO for AI
Spoiler
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SO for AI w/ Ordnance Expertise
Spoiler
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Champion
Spoiler
Basically optimal. Can be run without SO by getting ITU and such and replacing Ion Pulsers with Heavy Needlers or HACs.


Deals with fighters better
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Dominator
Spoiler
SO


non SO
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Aurora
Spoiler
Can get some PD for the AI. Can switch out smalls for what you want if flagship. Can use a Proximity Mine instead of the front Sabot Pod if you want.
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Doom
Spoiler
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Capitals
Spoiler
Atlas MkII
Spoiler
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Prometheus MkII
Spoiler
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Conquest
Spoiler
Broadquest Gaussquest Bestquest
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Legion
Spoiler
The only somewhat usable base Legion build for AI. Still kinda eh though.


Weird Legion builds that try to make it work by making the player pilot it
Spoiler


This one only works with Elite PD
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Legion XIV
Spoiler
Even Alex endorses this build. Hammer Legion chads rise up
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Onslaught
Spoiler
Can drop shunt if you want. Can switch front mediums for whatever
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Odyssey
Spoiler
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Astral
Spoiler
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Paragon
Spoiler
Plasmagon for maximum damage


Beamgon for maximum 1v1


The best anti shield and the best anti armor. Can also fit Unstable Injector.
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[REDACTED] otherwise known as spoiler territory
Spoiler
Glimmer
Spoiler
The Objectively best Glimmer Build:


HB SO Glimmer


Ion Pulser Glimmer for if you don't have enough cryoblasters or don't want to lose PPT on HB Glimmer

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Brilliant
Spoiler
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Radiant
Spoiler
The Skills for an Alpha Core are: Field Modulation, Systems Expertise, Ordnance Expertise, Missile Spec, Gunnery Implants, Target Analysis, Energy Weapon Mastery, and whatever you want for the last skill.
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SUPER REDACTED
Spoiler
WARNING WARNING [REDACTED]
Spoiler
For if you don't have [REDACTED] weapons


For if you do have [REDACTED] weapons
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Credits to the entire SS community for developing these strategies over years and of course Fractal Softworks and Co. for making the game.

Credits to you too if you offer me some builds to add in here. Anyone is welcome.
Go Download Bricky Construction

Changelog:
Spoiler
8.11.22
 - Added Locust Champ
 - Added Afflictor
 - Added Generalist Gryphon
 - Added HMG SO Hammerhead
 - Added Ion Pulser Glimmer
 - Removed Hammerhead and Aurora from Optimal Builds section
[close]
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 06:27:07 PM by Lortus »
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Lortus

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2022, 07:04:32 AM »

Reserved cuz I saw some people doing that
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MagisterRex

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2022, 07:12:06 AM »

S-mod Heavy Armor into every ship
.
.
.
NOW
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Lortus

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2022, 07:16:17 AM »

I approve
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Strict

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2022, 07:21:22 AM »

before I open spoilers is there at least 1-2 "optimal" builds without SO?
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BCS

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2022, 08:53:19 AM »

I assume these are all flagship fits...
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2022, 10:31:06 AM »

Given some of the fits include a single mining laser as token PD, whose only purpose I could imagine being to make the AI braver by thinking it has point defense, and likely would be better spend on 400 flux capacity or upgrading something else, I'm guessing these are AI fits unless otherwise stated.  It would help if it was clarified though.

Some of the later fits do have commentary indicating for AI or player (such as under the Legion section).  Although I do wonder at some of the commentary.  Why is an overfluxed Thunder/Pilum/Gauss Legion considered the only usable AI piloted base Legion.  The problem I see with it is relying on just the two Gauss (which it can't sustain at 100% fire rate due to flux) for all it's real damage against other capitals.  It's very low DPS, with easily shot down Pilums, and Thunders if they hit any AoE point defense drop like flies since they rely on their high speed to stay alive.

Also, some of the builds presented have no significant PD, being vulnerable to missiles (especially Salamanders) and fighters, others have no significant ability to deal with armor.  Some are shield shunt builds which tends to be a very specific kind of fleet instead of what I'd call a general ship you can just slot into any fleet.

Edited: For clarity
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 11:47:26 AM by Hiruma Kai »
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Lortus

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2022, 10:41:48 AM »

Yes there is 1 optimal fit which is not SO

They are both flagship and AI fits sprinkled all over the place. If a ship can be fit for the AI though, I made the fit for the AI.

Emotional Support PD is just that but isn't completely worthless even with the player.

The Legion fit I included is the least worthless Legion fit out there. Legion is a pretty bad ship so yeah the best build on it won't be all that impressive. Flux and such aren't a real issue since it stays out of range.

I don't really know which ships you have those issues of missiles and fighters with. Salamanders are never a really big issue till you run into 3 fulgents running 6 salamanders. Some of the frigates have less anti armor because they aren't gonna take on a capital anyways. They should be gooder at what they are already good at. The only shunt builds are capitals which will run completely fine at 240 dp fights that most players take part in. I would only start taking shunt off vs 600+ dp remnant fights, and it's a great boon with the AI. I do mention that you can take shunt off of the Onslaught though.
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CapnHector

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2022, 12:07:26 PM »

As a Conquest enthusiast and researcher I heartily approve of this Broadquest Gaussquest build.

Edit: remove my suggestion since this seems overall fine, we are currently trying to figure out if accelerated turret gyros might be worth for Gauss, report back when have data
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 08:49:27 PM by CapnHector »
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Hiruma Kai

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2022, 06:04:54 PM »

Emotional Support PD is just that but isn't completely worthless even with the player.

I agree it can help the AI in how it acts, but for the player I would need some evidence showing a single mining laser actually effectively shooting down some missiles over the course of a fight.

The Legion fit I included is the least worthless Legion fit out there. Legion is a pretty bad ship so yeah the best build on it won't be all that impressive. Flux and such aren't a real issue since it stays out of range.

Double Gauss works for a support Legion, and with s-mods and Ordinance Expertise you could up the flux so you can get 100% fire rate out of the Gauss while not being pressured, but I feel like I've had closer combat Legions still do reasonable work.  I need to do some fleet comparisons with Legion fit swaps and get some combat detail reports.  I feel like something running 2x Mark IX, 5x Harpoons, and some Longbows should be a somewhat higher DPS but closer range build that should work about as well.

I don't really know which ships you have those issues of missiles and fighters with. Salamanders are never a really big issue till you run into 3 fulgents running 6 salamanders. Some of the frigates have less anti armor because they aren't gonna take on a capital anyways. They should be gooder at what they are already good at. The only shunt builds are capitals which will run completely fine at 240 dp fights that most players take part in. I would only start taking shunt off vs 600+ dp remnant fights, and it's a great boon with the AI. I do mention that you can take shunt off of the Onslaught though.

At the very least, pirate Condors, Kites, Mules, and Buffalo Mk II will often run Salamanders or Salamander MRM pods.  I know the Support Condor variant comes with the MRM pod, there's the standard Pirate Mule comes with two salamanders, and so on.   I don't have much time to test tonight, but the ones that look like they have the biggest issues with missiles and fighters are the SO Hammerhead and the SO Champion.

Just doing a quick simulator run, putting the presented SO Hammerhead under AI control with Full Assault set up against the Support Condor from the sim (MRM Pod, 2 light ACs, 2 Talon wings), has the SO Hammerhead losing two out of two fights.  Just ran the SO Champion under AI control and Full Assault set up against the Support Condor and the Light Attack Condor (Pilum, Broadswords) had it eventually kill one Condor but died in the end.  While the Ion Pulsars are reasonable anti-fighter weapons, it was all the cruiser was firing.  Plasma cannons won't fire at fighters, and the Hammer Barrage, which strikes me as overkill when you've got a High Energy Focus Plasma cannon, also didn't do much.  Simply swapping out the Hammer Barrage for a Locust launcher has the Champion handily winning, since Locusts are excellent at sweeping fighters, and also strike well beyond SO Plasma cannon range which puts hard flux on the Condors, eliminating the possibility of zero flux boost while they're recovering fighters.  Also, the Locust swarm is good for sometimes accidently impacting other missiles (like Salamanders, although certainly not guaranteed).

If other ships are handling the anti-fighter duty, they're perfectly usable, but I wouldn't call them a general ship if it's relying on other ships to do critical defensive functions (like kill fighters).  That sounds like a specialist ship to me, which is perfectly fine, but I feel like they do have some obvious weaknesses.

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BCS

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2022, 08:47:32 PM »

They are both flagship and AI fits sprinkled all over the place. If a ship can be fit for the AI though, I made the fit for the AI.

Emotional Support PD is just that but isn't completely worthless even with the player.

I guess you must never fight fleets with any fighters in them, which makes me wonder what exactly are you fighting.
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Lortus

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2022, 11:13:29 PM »

If you mean mods then no I don't really play with mods.
Most of the ships here have enough gun to deal with any vanilla fighter spam you run into.
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Amoebka

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2022, 06:23:50 AM »

Rear-facing PD is mandatory for all AI ships, because they freak out and start turning weirdly otherwise. A 360 degree shield or Xyphos supports don't change that.

Missile-heavy ships, like Falcon and Gryphon, need at leat one long range non-PD weapon (tac laser and HVD, respectively) to prevent AI from closing into point-blank range. Why would you even put a flak and 3 vulcans on the front of a Gryphon, and leave the back PD mounts empty?
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Lortus

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2022, 09:38:15 AM »

Sorry I didn't respond to these comments for some reason I couldn't see them

Quote
Although I would put in hardened rather than stabilized shields and take the difference from caps

Getting more tankiness is better for the Conquest imo but that is reasonable and more of a personal preference thing

Quote
I agree it can help the AI in how it acts, but for the player I would need some evidence showing a single mining laser actually effectively shooting down some missiles over the course of a fight.

Yeah you are probably right about that I just thought 2 OP is not enough of a difference to warrant a new screenshot.

Quote
I feel like something running 2x Mark IX, 5x Harpoons, and some Longbows should be a somewhat higher DPS but closer range build that should work about as well.

The main issue with running conventional builds like this is that the legion AI is pretty terrible. It needs to be aggro because of it's bad stats but the AI is too passive. Hence the only build that plays nice with the AI is something that keeps it out of trouble. You could run harpoons instead of pilums if you wanted though.

Quote
At the very least, pirate Condors, Kites, Mules, and Buffalo Mk II will often run Salamanders or Salamander MRM pods

That can work. I do sometimes use salamander kites especially in tournaments. You did give me the idea to replace the pilum on the condor with a harpoon pod though, which might be interesting.

Quote
Just doing a quick simulator run, putting the presented SO Hammerhead under AI control with Full Assault set up against the Support Condor from the sim (MRM Pod, 2 light ACs, 2 Talon wings), has the SO Hammerhead losing two out of two fights.  Just ran the SO Champion under AI control and Full Assault set up against the Support Condor and the Light Attack Condor (Pilum, Broadswords) had it eventually kill one Condor but died in the end.  While the Ion Pulsars are reasonable anti-fighter weapons, it was all the cruiser was firing.  Plasma cannons won't fire at fighters, and the Hammer Barrage, which strikes me as overkill when you've got a High Energy Focus Plasma cannon, also didn't do much.  Simply swapping out the Hammer Barrage for a Locust launcher has the Champion handily winning, since Locusts are excellent at sweeping fighters, and also strike well beyond SO Plasma cannon range which puts hard flux on the Condors, eliminating the possibility of zero flux boost while they're recovering fighters.  Also, the Locust swarm is good for sometimes accidently impacting other missiles (like Salamanders, although certainly not guaranteed).

Just full assault doesn't really simulate reckless AI. Full assault + eliminate is still a bit shy of a reckless captain but it's close enough for some rudimentary testing. With full assault + eliminate the hammerhead literally tanked the salamanders and kept flying forward and basically oneshot the condor. The champion had a much tougher fight. It got bullied really hard for a bit but that ended when the fighters desynced and the champion just ran the carriers down. SO ships as hunter ships are a bad matchup for carriers, so not being good against the fighters is not as big of an issue.
The best strategy against vanilla fighters (except some bombers) is actually to just ignore them most of the time. In campaign the fighter problem becomes much less of a problem, because it's easier to desync enemy fighters, it's more likely that they won't evenly spread focus to keep you down, smods and officers make your ship MUCH tankier making it a lot easier to just ignore the fighters and use your shield as pd, and reckless ai makes things a breeze.
I do wanna say thank you for the Locust suggestion. It's pretty interesting and I've never tested it before. I do appreciate that people are giving actual constructive criticism instead of complaining. I think I will add it in as another build after some testing.
As for specialism, as I said I think it becomes less of an issue in campaign fleet battles.

Quote
Rear-facing PD is mandatory for all AI ships, because they freak out and start turning weirdly otherwise. A 360 degree shield or Xyphos supports don't change that.

Sometimes they freak out. That's better than how they sometimes ignore salamanders. Freaking out is good, and giving up a bunch of OP to stop one missile that doesn't do damage and which PD won't even stop is a bit insane.

Quote
Missile-heavy ships, like Falcon and Gryphon, need at leat one long range non-PD weapon (tac laser and HVD, respectively) to prevent AI from closing into point-blank range. Why would you even put a flak and 3 vulcans on the front of a Gryphon, and leave the back PD mounts empty?

The falcon wants to sit in your face so that's perfect. The gryphon will be even more aggro and sit in your face if you give it a weapon, which you also now need to invest ITU into. That's 20 OP, or 4000 flux capacity gone. As for 'manders see above, and especially the gryphon, a ship which doesn't need to worry about where it's pointing doesn't need back PD.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Ship Build Compendium (Vanilla) [0.95.1a-RC6] (31.10.12)
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2022, 06:34:42 PM »

Quote
I feel like something running 2x Mark IX, 5x Harpoons, and some Longbows should be a somewhat higher DPS but closer range build that should work about as well.

The main issue with running conventional builds like this is that the legion AI is pretty terrible. It needs to be aggro because of it's bad stats but the AI is too passive. Hence the only build that plays nice with the AI is something that keeps it out of trouble. You could run harpoons instead of pilums if you wanted though.

I typically have my Legions and Legion XIV escort another direct fire capital, like an Onslaught, Paragon or Radiant.  This keeps small fry off the back of the direct fire capital, and keeps the Legion somewhat back from the front line, while allowing the Harpoons and fighters to fly over the escorted capital.  That generally keeps both capitals out of trouble I find.   But I need to do some testing tests to be able to make a sensible statement.

Just full assault doesn't really simulate reckless AI. Full assault + eliminate is still a bit shy of a reckless captain but it's close enough for some rudimentary testing.
That's a fair point, full assault is more akin to aggressive perhaps.  And SO ships really want to be Reckless.

With full assault + eliminate the hammerhead literally tanked the salamanders and kept flying forward and basically oneshot the condor. The champion had a much tougher fight. It got bullied really hard for a bit but that ended when the fighters desynced and the champion just ran the carriers down. SO ships as hunter ships are a bad matchup for carriers, so not being good against the fighters is not as big of an issue.

I guess my point was these ships do have bad matchups.  They may be optimized, but that's mostly towards killing larger and slower ships.  When I think of the term optimal without qualification, I tend to think capable of taking on any situation that might occur in the vanilla game.  Fighter heavy fights don't happen that often in vanilla, but they can be some of the more challenging ones when they do.

Certainly, a fight that might want heavier rear point defense is the custom campaign mission Doom fleet with all those mines, as well as losing engines to phase ships getting behind the champions.

Although I do know for a fact the double Tesseract fight will wipe a fleet of those SO Hammerheads and SO Champions as presented.  Just booted up a test game with Command Console, ran the fight with 8 Champions, 4 Hammerheads, 10 level 6 reckless officers and a level 15 character (Combat 5, Leadership 7, Tech 3, no s-mods, but 2 elite skills per officer), and was a total loss under autopilot and no fleet commands given.

Simply changing the Champions to use Locust instead of Hammer Barrages and switching out for a long range ITU Hammerheads with some long-range point defenses resulted in a win, with only the loss of the unofficered Hammerhead in the first few moments, as well as the autopiloted player character Champion.  Identical officers and main character.

That strikes me as a potentially large swing in effectiveness in a vanilla fight some players may care about.

Now I admit that this was without s-mods, but arguably said changes will boost both fleets about equally.  Same goes for human piloting and fleet commands. 

At the end of the day, there's quite a number of configurations that can take on Tesseract fights and Ordos.  At the point you can beat them cleanly, I'd personally rather shore up my weaknesses rather than double down on what the ship is already good at.  Minimize my weaknesses in addition to maximizing my strengths, as opposed to optimizing along only a particular concept (maximum forward DPS for killing capitals).  I'm not saying the ship builds are bad, but I feel more nuance in communicating what one expects them to be able to do and what they don't expect them to be able to do is needed other than simply saying they are "optimal".

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