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Author Topic: Why is there flux instead of power or something?  (Read 2849 times)

Killian

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2022, 11:26:58 PM »

The most puzzling thing to me is why firing plain old antiquated guns using what appear to be chemical propellants would increase flux, since the firing does not consume electricity or require energy transfer (probably, since several gun descriptions describe shells used and clouds of fire are ejected which seems to imply they work like guns in our universe). This would work if flux is heat but that is not consistent with other observations.

...

Yeah, maybe it's not this.

...

- what is a heat overload and why does it produce lightning and disable said guns

Because it's not mechanical ignition (that is, a hammer impacting a primer that ignites the propellant), it's electrochemical (zap the propellant with enough charge and whoops off it goes). You simply cannot afford to open up the magazine or breech whilst the ship is overloading, because there's a chance it might jump to the ammunition and cause the entire thing to go off all at once. Whilst it's still inside the hull.

Magazine detonations are no joke!

This post, on the other hand, is somewhat facetious.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2022, 01:57:37 AM »

Eh the two are mathematically equivalent, whether you want to think of starting with a full energy bar and then it decreasing as you use your weapons or absorb damage, or starting with an empty flux bar and then it increasing as you use your weapons or absorb damage. You can convert it by simply saying current energy = total flux - current flux. It's really just a psychological or mental difference.

Among other things the whole hard/soft flux thing wouldn't work with energy or heat, yeah. Not sure what the concept of active venting would translate to with energy either.

Not sure why it wouldn't work. The hard flux notch would simply start at the right and gradually go to the left as the ship takes damage, with it representing the maximum energy the ship can have until shields go down etc. In terms of worldbuilding handwaving, hard flux could just represent some sort of shield charge or static or polarity or some other technobabble that builds up as the shields get used (i.e. absorb damage), that requires the shields to go down for that buildup to be released or drained or reset. Similarly, venting could just be interpreted as taking the shields and weapons offline to recharge energy extra quickly.
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Yunru

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2022, 04:27:50 AM »

The most puzzling thing to me is why firing plain old antiquated guns using what appear to be chemical propellants would increase flux, since the firing does not consume electricity or require energy transfer (probably, since several gun descriptions describe shells used and clouds of fire are ejected which seems to imply they work like guns in our universe). This would work if flux is heat but that is not consistent with other observations.
As far as I'm aware, gun ammo is fabricated on-site, so even chemically propelled weapons have a power draw.

Notably, (vanilla) missiles don't cause flux, but in most cases have limited ammo.

CapnHector

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2022, 04:58:45 AM »

Really? I did not think of that. But why can they manufacture shells but not missiles on site?

Also, is the new ammunition made from chemicals and metals that they brought along, or synthesized somhow? In the latter case it would seem smarter to hurl whatever energy source they are using for the synthesis at the enemy than to make comparably crude explosives.

Edit: also come to think of it, they do manufacture missiles on site for fighters, even during a fight, but not for ships. Why?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 05:03:26 AM by CapnHector »
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Jackundor

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2022, 05:06:12 AM »

lack of internal ammuntion handling that can safely reload the missiles
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CapnHector

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2022, 06:17:27 AM »

I mean I guess it kind of makes sense to bring an autoforge (apparently a nanotech thing) and raw materials instead of the finished product if you are not sure how much of which kind of finished product you will need

You might expect system defense ships to be stocked with finished ammunition rather than raw materials though since they do not explore deep space, that way they could fire their guns without a flux cost. If that's the reason for the cost that is

Also a smart captain might prepare for combat by manufacturing ammo before combat starts, at least some
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 06:18:58 AM by CapnHector »
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Iannar

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2022, 07:19:40 AM »

I imagine flux as the measure of ship reactor's quantum stability. I think that it works like electron on atomic shell; it's getting "excited". When more energy is needed engineers push reactor's matter in to more energetic quantum levels. Matter of course don't want be excited and go back to the lowest level, emitting radiation in the process. Flux is % of excited matter in the reactor. If too much of the matter is on higher quantum states engineers lose control and overload happens. Hard flux is generated when too rapid or too high energy spike is needed (kinetic bullet hit a shield f.e.) and matter get excited on metastable level. This prevents simple and quick getting back to the lowest quantum energy state and forceful cooling is recommended.

I was also thinking about reason why bullet weapons need to generate flux and found one - barrel wearing. Each artillery barrel can shoot some finite times without losing its accuracy. The bigger the gun and the higher amplitudes of temperatures (40 K temp. in space around ship) between shoots, the shorter barrel life is. To prevent that, guns have energy fields protecting it during fire shot.
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CapnHector

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2022, 07:28:17 AM »

At some point you have to chalk edge cases up to game mechanics.

Yeah I know and I have no doubt that the (excellent - I think this is one of the best games I ever played, year after year) game mechanics came first and explanations later. But asking these awkward questions is the point, the joke. Like asking how many calories the Flash needs to eat after a run. You're not supposed to, of course.

I'm still not sold on the factory. If the guns do not all use the same elements you are still bringing gun specific ammo. But if they do, you might as well pre-fab ammo and break it down if you need something else. Surely the autofac can also break things down. Like to make stuff from space rocks.
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Fenrir

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2022, 07:42:16 AM »

I've imagined flux as some sort of "vent coolant volatility", and energy stuck in shield, whether energy bolt or actual slugs, cannot be removed when shield is active. Force venting is to eject all running coolants and replace them with new, and due to instability of coolant it cannot be stopped midway or it might explode
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2022, 02:33:57 PM »

Your ship is getting full of quantum slag or whatever. Get rid of it or your ship is going to get gunked up and will stop working until you clean the damn thing out off the system.
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Brainwright

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2022, 04:15:37 PM »

I'm still not sold on the factory. If the guns do not all use the same elements you are still bringing gun specific ammo. But if they do, you might as well pre-fab ammo and break it down if you need something else. Surely the autofac can also break things down. Like to make stuff from space rocks.

Missiles are the guns with pre-fab ammo, and I think you are vastly underselling the space savings of an ammo loader that goes from homogeneous feedstock, to blackbox fab, and ends at the ammo feed.
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Linnis

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2022, 04:28:25 PM »

I'd imagine people aint using chemical propelled munitions anymore. So instead of using stored chemical energy, energy from ship itself is poured into a medium that can propells the munition. Maybe some kind of strange plasma that becomes statble untill its conditions cange under a trigger.

Kind of like a mix of railgun and gunpower tech. So the word "propellants" in universe also changes meaning as no one uses chemical energy anymore, and it just refers to whatever this energy medium is.
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Brainwright

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Re: Why is there flux instead of power or something?
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2022, 11:01:54 PM »

I'd imagine people aint using chemical propelled munitions anymore. So instead of using stored chemical energy, energy from ship itself is poured into a medium that can propells the munition. Maybe some kind of strange plasma that becomes statble untill its conditions cange under a trigger.

Kind of like a mix of railgun and gunpower tech. So the word "propellants" in universe also changes meaning as no one uses chemical energy anymore, and it just refers to whatever this energy medium is.

Yeah, no.  Every watt of power used heats the ship the same as if it was running through an actual heating device.  Ballistic propellants have an advantage because they expel the heat of firing, which otherwise requires tons of heavy metal to sink and distribute.
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