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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

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Author Topic: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?  (Read 1741 times)

gG_pilot

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2022, 11:28:13 AM »

There should be a reason to fight for buoys REPEATEDLY.
Which means, whoever get the buoy get  T1: a new time limited bonus, and S1 : current static  bonus.
It means, every time buoy change  ownerhip, it offers  T1 and S1 bonuses.
Perhaps player, or even AI could purposely attack another buoy  to get T1, of course you  cant defend all, so your oponent get sneaky and  grab somee of yours.

This system would  bring dinamics to combat.
The question is thou, what is T1 bonus ?
- battlefield repair of a  ship which made most contribution to capture, like 0,5% armor and hull per second for next 20 seconds
- < space_for_yours_idea>
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Phenir

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2022, 01:50:02 PM »

Take this for example. The two objectives are right next to my fleet so I don't need frigates to take them at all(there is one possible objective configuration - the diamond one - where the nearest objective is right in front of your fleet so you end up capturing it even without trying, just by flying over it) Also note how I get screwed and got two Comm Relays - which do nothing for me because I already deployed my entire fleet - while the enemy gets the much more valuable Nav Buoy and Sensor Jammer. Finally the map is quite clearly split in two so both me and the enemy can get our own objectives and call it a day.

Quick and dirty mockup of how I would like objectives to look like. Uneven amount so that there is always one to fight over, out of the way of the main fighting to make frigates more relevant and mirrored so that you don't get screwed by positioning.

I too love when the game let you camp in a corner and cheese the AI /s

If your fleet is stronger then hiding in a corner is not necessary. If your fleet is weaker then it's downright suicidal because your ships don't have anywhere to retreat and will constantly block one another. I don't think camping corners is exploitable, objectives or not.
In your first example, with the two com relays on your side, they are still worthwhile to capture and hold, or at least prevent the enemy from capturing, because the enemy side is also affected by dp limits and gains from objectives. A nav buoy and a sensor jammer only gives 10% of the dp limit and, if that side is at lower limit, they are still down 10% compared to you. They will be at 50% while you will be at 60%. Comm relays also increases your command point regeneration rate. I do like the idea of having objectives more out of the way to give faster, squishier ships more value in big fights. I think they already have good value though as the enemy AI tends to deathball and only send few ships to capture points. Killing those ships results in them peeling more ships to capture points, letting you chip away at their deathball without even engaging it.

As for cheesing in the corner, it is very exploitable. The AI tends to avoid the sides of the arena by a large margin, so your fleet (or your single ship) can force the enemy to stay on one side and enemy frigates and destroys can't flank and likely won't even try to get in range of their weapons because of that aforementioned avoidance of the sides. Additionally, you have drawn the entire enemy fleet into the corner. If you deploy more ships, they will be sandwiched between your forces in the corner and your new forces coming from the middle of the bottom of the screen. Then you can just retreat those ships that were in corner and now the AI is the one in the corner.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2022, 03:16:35 AM »

I don't mind that much but sometimes i just can't keep the objectives because i get overwhelmed by seas of enemies while i am capped to 30 ships max so eventually i get nothing but pure disadvantages. Why does that limit exist anyways? DP is already a thing.
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Megas

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2022, 06:19:48 AM »

So what could an on map objective add that people wouldn't hate? If not deployment points, then what? We already have weapon range and speed. A CR timer boost? A salvage boost?
Gain a story point (feed the 2^n growth) or rare item (Omega weapon, blueprint, colony item).  Maybe not a good idea because sub-100 DP fleets (like solo Ziggurat) do not get objectives and the goodies if this happened.

Remove a d-mod from the ship that captured the point.

But DP is important.  160 DP is not enough.  (I would not be surprised of most builds have a Leadership capstone for more ships.)
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Brainwright

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2022, 06:52:37 AM »

Sorry buds, but the buoys are the only way you can make a less than high tech fleet act in a reasonably non-suicidal manner.  Just keep them the way they are.
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BCS

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2022, 10:55:24 PM »

Sorry buds, but the buoys are the only way you can make a less than high tech fleet act in a reasonably non-suicidal manner.

I am so confused by this post. Are you saying AI is better with high tech ships? Because that certainly hasn't been my experience. Are you saying that you should order capture on all points? Because that will likely get you into trouble. And you don't need buoys at all if you simply use normal move commands.
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gG_pilot

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Re: anyone else despise the buoy mechanics?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2022, 02:32:20 PM »

There should be a reason to fight for buoys REPEATEDLY.
Which means, whoever get the buoy get  T1: a new time limited bonus, and S1 : current static  bonus.
It means, every time buoy change  ownerhip, it offers  T1 and S1 bonuses.
Perhaps player, or even AI could purposely attack another buoy  to get T1, of course you  cant defend all, so your oponent get sneaky and  grab somee of yours.

This system would  bring dinamics to combat.
The question is thou, what is T1 bonus ?
- battlefield repair of a  ship which made most contribution to capture, like 0,5% armor and hull per second for next 20 seconds
- < space_for_yours_idea>
Today announcement of World of tanks
introduces the same game play I recommended few days  ago. LOL
Points of interests (Buoys in Starsector) gives various time limited bonuses  to whom capture  the point. Repeatedly.
For example it slowly fixes heavy tanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR8EECTyXUA&t=405s
Perhaps it wasnt so bad idea, right?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 02:35:34 PM by gG_pilot »
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