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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

Author Topic: New/rebalanced ship variants?  (Read 457 times)

Kos135

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New/rebalanced ship variants?
« on: September 24, 2022, 01:40:02 PM »

Pirate, Luddic Path, Hegemony, Tri Tachyon, etc. Which new ship variants, or rebalances of existing variants would you like to see?

I would like to see faction-specific variants of every ship that a faction has in its fleet doctrine, with their own buffs/debuffs and reskins. But I remember reading a post from Alex a while back saying he doesn't have plans for that. It would also raise the question of which Luddic Path ships would receive built-in Safety Overrides or not, and what the generic faction buffs/debuffs would be. In the case of factions that use lots of improvised tech such as Pirates/Luddic Path/Luddic Church, I don't think it would fit the lore for them to have a standardized buff/debuff scheme that is constant for every ship class.

As for specific ships, I'd like to see a Pirate Lasher variant, Hegemony and/or XIV Mora variant, and some kind of rebalance for the Pirate Falcon. The Lasher is one of the cheapest and most common ships in the sector with high firepower for its size and cost. This makes it a natural pick for Pirates, although I'm not sure what kind of stat changes it should receive. At the very least it should get a Pirate reskin.

Regarding the Pirate Falcon, people have known for a while that it's overpowered. Built-in Augmented Field Drive and Unstable Injector and 4x medium missile slots. Technically 2 of them are composites but nobody uses those for ballistics. It costs 20 DP vs the vanilla Falcon's 14 DP but even with that nerf it's still overpowered. It needs to be nerfed but not in a way that detracts from its role. I think the Pirate Falcon should suffer a penalty to its flux stats in exchange for all of its buffs. It will still be fast and lethal, but it shouldn't be able to fit a powerful shield tank in addition to its speed and 4x medium missiles.

The Mora's in-game description said it was designed as an escort for the Onslaught so it's puzzling why it doesn't already have a Hegemony and/or XIV variant. Not much else to say about that one.

What do you guys think? What other ships need a variant or variants? Which existing variants need rebalancing? If there was going to be a faction-specific variant of every ship in a faction's fleet doctrine, with a generic buff/debuff scheme, what would that look like for the different factions?
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Megas

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Re: New/rebalanced ship variants?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2022, 07:30:13 PM »

I think pirate Falcon is okay.  It better be strong for a 20 DP glass sword.  If I want converted hangar on it, I am skimping on flux stats already to get everything to fit.  If pirate falcon gets its flux stats gutted, then its DP cost should be rolled back closer to 14 DP.

I like to see more pirate high-tech ships.  Maybe add pirate Medusa since the codex hints at it.  Maybe turn classic Medusa into pirate Medusa and change the universals into synergies for basic Medusa and give it some buff to compensate.

People post that Heron is good only as a bomber carrier (like Astral) and should not be used as a battlecarrier with interceptors.  Mora should be used for interceptor boat instead.  But the League will have neither bombers nor Mora in their fleets.  If Heron does not get more OP, I can see Heron either using three Talons or Pods for fighters or having nearly no flux stats at all.

And if the League uses DEMs exclusively for missiles, then they cannot use the Gryphon's one true loadout with linked Squalls and Harpoons that makes Gryphon overpowered because they will not have any!

As for specific ships, I'd like to see a Pirate Lasher variant, Hegemony and/or XIV Mora variant, and some kind of rebalance for the Pirate Falcon. The Lasher is one of the cheapest and most common ships in the sector with high firepower for its size and cost. This makes it a natural pick for Pirates, although I'm not sure what kind of stat changes it should receive. At the very least it should get a Pirate reskin.
Maybe give it the Eradicator treatment, swap ammo feeder for burn drive.  However, pirate would probably like it for the firepower, so changing the system would defeat the purpose of using it.

Or give it the pirate Wolf treatment and rip out the two rear turrets as a "destroyed mounts" version, and lower its DP cost to 3.

Pirate versions who only differ from standard versions by paintjob (like Enforcer, Manticore, and Vanguard) are lame.  There should be mechanical or stat differences that set them apart from each other.
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Kos135

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Re: New/rebalanced ship variants?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2022, 09:01:06 PM »

Burn Drive would make the Lasher useless, its role is a low DP frigate with lots of ballistic firepower and minor missile support. Even with a slightly lower DP cost it would be useless.

Pirate Falcon doesn't need Converted Hangar to be powerful, nor does it need a strong shield tank to be powerful. It has two built in hullmods and 4x medium missiles. You shouldn't need a strong shield tank in addition to that.
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smithney

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Re: New/rebalanced ship variants?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2022, 03:25:39 AM »

Pirate Falcon doesn't need Converted Hangar to be powerful, nor does it need a strong shield tank to be powerful. It has two built in hullmods and 4x medium missiles. You shouldn't need a strong shield tank in addition to that.
But neither does it need to be nerfed just because a player can build it awesome. Stasector's not a pvp game, also it's really not like Phalcon is an easily obtainable hull that fits every fleet comp and completely trivializes the game upon acquisition. In addition, keep in mind Pirates don't have many reliably strong hulls in their fleets and gimping Phalcon would possibly drift them back into the laughingstock territory. Not to mention the funny ludonarrative implication that Pirates are capable of making competent hulls, they are just hardly capable of appreciating it when it happens.

Btw seconding Megas that a Pirate Medusa streamlined for offensive use would be a juicy and flavorful addition B)
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Megas

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Re: New/rebalanced ship variants?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2022, 05:37:12 AM »

But neither does it need to be nerfed just because a player can build it awesome. Stasector's not a pvp game, also it's really not like Phalcon is an easily obtainable hull that fits every fleet comp and completely trivializes the game upon acquisition. In addition, keep in mind Pirates don't have many reliably strong hulls in their fleets and gimping Phalcon would possibly drift them back into the laughingstock territory. Not to mention the funny ludonarrative implication that Pirates are capable of making competent hulls, they are just hardly capable of appreciating it when it happens.

Btw seconding Megas that a Pirate Medusa streamlined for offensive use would be a juicy and flavorful addition B)
Gryphon is a ship that if player does not know the one true loadout and uses random stuff, or even uses Squalls and Harpoons but does not "Linked" them in a single group, it is not overpowered and it is worth about 20 DP.  But with Squalls and Harpoons linked in one group, it is overpowered and easily worth... I guess maybe 30 DP.  Kind of annoying that there is one somewhat obscure loadout (obscure because it requires linked missiles in one group, which autofit does not do) that significantly outperforms nearly all other loadouts.

I also like to see pirate Fury too, since they are fairly common (in the current release).  Not sure what it would have to set it apart from standard.

Actually, I like to see pirates use all the ships, pirated versions.  Whenever the player sells a blueprint, a new hacked pirate hull (instead of standard or faction specialty like XIV as done today) gets unlocked for them to use.  I would like to see pirates use a pirate version of a Paragon, after the player sold them the blueprint for Paragon.  For ships with multiple versions, like Legion, if the player sold them either, the pirates get a pirate Legion unlocked, not standard or XIV.

One pirate ship I am not fond of is pirate Wolf.  It is pure downgrade (fewer mounts, nerfed system), and the 4 DP cost is not enough compensation.
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Serenitis

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Re: New/rebalanced ship variants?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2022, 10:57:00 AM »

One pirate ship I am not fond of is pirate Wolf.  It is pure downgrade (fewer mounts, nerfed system), and the 4 DP cost is not enough compensation.
This.
They're just too fragile to not have some kind of PD for their exposed rear.
And any other variant is easy enough to find that it's never worth using the (P) version.

If Wolf had an omni shield, this would be less of an issue (and would make it a bit more survivable in general).


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