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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

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Author Topic: Hostile Activity  (Read 6673 times)

Wyvern

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2022, 08:25:47 AM »

encountering the odd large Pather fleet in one of your systems
This actually makes me a bit concerned - how is this going to interact with the existing trade shortage mechanics? Ever since the change to make trade shortages appear even when there wasn't an actual fleet lost, those have functioned as just a random un-mitigatable debuff that occasionally cripples important structures.

(For example, a supplies shortage can result in a planet's stability crashing as all of its defensive structures stop providing their full stability bonus. And there's nothing you can do about it - build all the military bases you like, sometimes the game just decides 'nope, you got pirated anyway'. Even if you're there - well, temporarily installing AI cores should help, but doesn't - yes, they reduce demand, but if there's a shortage going they also magically reduce the supply too, and for a large colony, just dropping the needed number of supplies yourself is... probably not something you've got cargo room for, nevermind the expense - since, unlike AI colonies, you don't get a nice simple 'resolve shortage by selling 2000 supplies' option. )

Adding extra hostile fleets in player systems seems like it would exacerbate this.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2022, 09:11:26 AM »

Explicitly lumping all hostilities into one event feels odd, but I guess it's less busywork the player this way. Are Hegemony inspections a part of this event too? The post makes it seem punitive expeditions are gone, but surely our orange heroes won't stop being the blight upon the sector?

I think it came up a couple of times in this thread already, but no, Hegemony inspections are not part of this :)


I guess it's so you get them one at a time rather then being absolutely dog piled by half of the sector at once?

That's part of it, yeah. Also making it more predictable/avertable.


encountering the odd large Pather fleet in one of your systems
This actually makes me a bit concerned - how is this going to interact with the existing trade shortage mechanics? Ever since the change to make trade shortages appear even when there wasn't an actual fleet lost, those have functioned as just a random un-mitigatable debuff that occasionally cripples important structures.
...
Adding extra hostile fleets in player systems seems like it would exacerbate this.

It doesn't really factor in, actually, or rather - it's not a substantial difference. The main difference is that you could actually mitigate this quite a lot by addressing the HA causes. ... actually, let me also make it dependent on overall event progress, so that these are much less likely at low progress - there, done.
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Brainwright

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2022, 09:31:28 AM »

Honestly, I think the highest hostility Pather event would be an anti-matter containment breach at the space port.  Nothing like a gamma-ray suntan to brighten your day.

Who's to say what that "spaceport operations disrupted for 180 days" doesn't mean they're just rebuilding it a couple of kilometers away from the crater? :)

That's what I always imagined!  I believed the reason the player gets to be in charge of these colonies is that they take charge of the spaceport that offloads the fuel from landing ships and stockpiles it safely.  It seems really necessary given how easily the fuel can be turned into a bomb.

All I'm really looking for in this system is adding some variability to the current system.  The randomized state of war we have now is actually rather homogeneous.  I want to be able to go out exploring for a year, come back to raze some pirate bases before they toast my colony, and then go out for another year.

It's the ability to commit to something long term, to plan.  If Hostile Activity provides that, I'll be hopping with joy.
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FreonRu

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2022, 09:36:59 AM »

Good day. As always unpredictable and very exciting, I foresee that the new game will be amazing.

But I still have a couple of questions:
1 I really like to create colonies in one system so that patrol fleets help each other. How will this new system work in such a case? Will the threat affect all colonies in the system at once?

2 Will the new system take hegemony inspection fleets into account? Sometimes you want to break the laws and use the core of artificial intelligence. And with the new system, it will be possible to understand to what level of suspicion will be minimal.
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Delta_of_Isaire

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2022, 11:45:21 PM »

The coming update just crossed the threshold where it is so much more awesome than the current release that I can't play the current release anymore.


Oh well. Back to romhacking Pokémon...
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Cegorach

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2022, 12:36:05 AM »


Currently, almost all industries are about making money and >only< about making money - save for Heavy Industry, which you want to get and upgrade perhaps sooner than other industries, because it doesn't just earn you money, it makes ships and weapons and fighters you can have way more fun with, than just money!...

Not to get too testicle, but almost all industries have a secondary or primary effect on centrally planning your economy.  The command centre buildings are also not about money but rather keeping your colony safe, as well as in house production of marines.  The reason i mention this is because I  don't think they're necessarily a curiousity but potentially somethings that may dovetail into more of the same mechanics.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2022, 02:01:32 AM »

2 Will the new system take hegemony inspection fleets into account? Sometimes you want to break the laws and use the core of artificial intelligence. And with the new system, it will be possible to understand to what level of suspicion will be minimal.


I think it came up a couple of times in this thread already, but no, Hegemony inspections are not part of this :)
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Serenitis

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2022, 02:46:16 AM »

This... Has possibilities.
So many of them.

unlike AI colonies, you don't get a nice simple 'resolve shortage by selling 2000 supplies' option.
You don't get one by default, but you do if you build Commerce.

This is one of the reasons I'd prefer if colonies automatically just have a market on them, or Commerce is split like patrol bases and the market is a structure that upgrades into the commerce industry. Because having a market on your colony is just so darn useful.
Also your colonies with a market show up in the best buy/sell lists (if they qualify). Which is rad.
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FreonRu

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2022, 03:38:54 AM »

SonnaBanana, thanks, I didn't read the entire comment thread.
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Megas

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2022, 04:26:32 AM »

unlike AI colonies, you don't get a nice simple 'resolve shortage by selling 2000 supplies' option.
You don't get one by default, but you do if you build Commerce.

This is one of the reasons I'd prefer if colonies automatically just have a market on them, or Commerce is split like patrol bases and the market is a structure that upgrades into the commerce industry. Because having a market on your colony is just so darn useful.
Also your colonies with a market show up in the best buy/sell lists (if they qualify). Which is rad.
So player needs to eat a -3 stability penalty, lose an industry slot, and have Open Market be the default screen instead of Storage (when viewing ships).  That is kind of lame.

I tried the option of using stockpiles to mitigate shortage, but it is a pain to set up (haul all the commodities to colony resources for every colony), and it seems not to fully restore income.  It is like there is an additonal (hidden) money cost (beyond commodity drain) to use stockpiles to fix a shortage.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2022, 09:20:41 AM »

Not to get too testicle,
wat

but almost all industries have a secondary or primary effect on centrally planning your economy.
I think, given the industry limitations, almost any industry that isn't a profit center is inevitably going to be concerned with producing a commodity or item that has more than just exchange value - so what will fix a lot of the issues with industries is likely to be 'more stuff to do in the world with commodities' (IE, you can't just spend credits to fix a food shortage; you have to have, and supply, food)
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Candesce

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2022, 09:35:25 AM »

(IE, you can't just spend credits to fix a food shortage; you have to have, and supply, food)
Hmm.

"I have a large amount of food production, you have a shortage. Would you appreciate a humanitarian convoy?"

Little mini-mission attached to the farming industry. You've got to escort a shipment, and in return for a few fights you get a chunk of rep with whoever you're sending the food to.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2022, 10:05:07 AM »

have Open Market be the default screen instead of Storage (when viewing ships).  That is kind of lame.

Perhaps Storage should be the default screen instead of Open Market, and remove the one-time cost to opening storage.
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Serenitis

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2022, 02:17:26 PM »

So player needs to eat a -3 stability penalty, lose an industry slot, and have Open Market be the default screen instead of Storage (when viewing ships).  That is kind of lame.
If the market was a 'default', it would just exist with no other effects beyond existing. The Commerce industry would then be solely for the extra income, and the player still controls whether they build it (and suffer its effects) or not.
If Commerce was split, the structure would add the market and nothing else. No further effects. And as stated, upgrading it would turn it into the current industry.
And I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to make storage the default selection.

This isn't the first time I've explained this idea to you (and it probably won't be the last).
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smithney

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2022, 02:29:16 PM »

Basically, my feeling is that this probably *could* be applied to a ton of things, but I want to be at least somewhat judicious regarding what exactly to apply it to, if you know what I mean. Suggestions/ideas are good, though, it helps think this through - so, thank you for that!
I applaud this approach in the light of many suggestions that popped up around here. I'm not sure everyone posting here is familiar with how event tracks tend to play out in tabletop games and personally I can imagine getting quickly lost in too many of them, as pointed out in the blog. That said, unless I'm wrong, the only tracker available for the player to overview will be the Hostile Activity, which is meant to facilitate player choice. I'm looking forward to experience the ways you decided to employ the track mechanic, overtly or not :P

Regarding the 'Player Choices' paragraphs, I'm getting "iron triangle" vibes from the way you described them (i.e. causal X frequent X intermittent solution). I'm just afraid players might force themselves into the causal approach if it feels like it's the "correct" one. Also, I feel like I personally would quickly get tired of the causal one if it leans too heavily on narrative. Thinking of the more narrative-leaning Sebastyen repeat missions as an example.

Regarding different types of hostile activity, I think Hegemony and the Diktat are both poised for being represented by it in some way. I'm not sure how and if it would suit the League and the Church as well, at this point I'm thinking that not all factions would resort primarily to combat to resolve their issues.
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