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Author Topic: Hostile Activity  (Read 13452 times)

Gothars

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2022, 11:09:57 AM »

Interesting mechanic, looking forward to seeing all the ways it will be implemented!

Basically, my feeling is that this probably *could* be applied to a ton of things, but I want to be at least somewhat judicious regarding what exactly to apply it to, if you know what I mean. Suggestions/ideas are good, though, it helps think this through - so, thank you for that!

An event bar could add a lot to exploration, I think. I love that part of the game, but it feels a bit, well, undirected. You have to set your own goals and it tends to just... peter out in the end.

An event bar could help by setting clear objectives. You reach intermediate goals (salvage a research station,  rescue a distress caller, fight a mothership, survey all of system x...) and then at the end something "happens". E.G. a new star system appears, the [redacted] try to expand to a new (your?) system, or maybe just that you get a mission that guarantees a colony item reward. Somehow I feel this might tie in well with the historian.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 12:21:46 PM by Gothars »
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FreonRu

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2022, 11:25:45 AM »

I've often thought it would be pretty cool if the Character menu was replaced by a Crew menu, representing the disposition of your fleet.  Instead of the main character having all the skills, you bring together several hires, either as ship officers or some other more civilian mode, and promote them to a position using story points.  Like you can have a captain of a ship and his executive officer, and they each have three skills.  The ship goes into combat with all three of the captain's skills, plus his one elite, and two of the XO's skills (poor sod can't get an elite skill until he's promoted!).

And then you have your quartermaster and head engineer for all the Industry skills and some of what are skills now can be built onto specific ships (like Phase Fleet) in such a way that combat can damage the work, forcing you to rebuild.  Naturally, that wouldn't work with the way things are now.  Largely replacing character points with story points to change the construction and operation of your fleet.

Just a thought.

I had a similar idea, only with a slightly larger number of positions in the state of the entire fleet. I put it in a post https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25185.0 (first point).
But I think the idea is difficult to implement, but it's very interesting how it could look like.

I apologize for not being on the topic of enemy activity.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 11:30:38 AM by FreonRu »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2022, 03:28:04 PM »

Basically, my feeling is that this probably *could* be applied to a ton of things, but I want to be at least somewhat judicious regarding what exactly to apply it to, if you know what I mean. Suggestions/ideas are good, though, it helps think this through - so, thank you for that!

An event bar could add a lot to exploration, I think. I love that part of the game, but it feels a bit, well, undirected. You have to set your own goals and it tends to just... peter out in the end.

An event bar could help by setting clear objectives. You reach intermediate goals (salvage a research station,  rescue a distress caller, fight a mothership, survey all of system x...) and then at the end something "happens". E.G. a new star system appears, the [redacted] try to expand to a new (your?) system, or maybe just that you get a mission that guarantees a colony item reward. Somehow I feel this might tie in well with the historian.

Domain drone invasion! :P
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Thaago

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2022, 05:06:26 PM »

Looks cool! Its a nice system that really could be applied to so many things (whether or not it would be worth/good doing that is another question). Currently things like bounties, derelicts, and remnants all scale based on how many have been done, so if any of them wanted a more complicated system they could be converted to this. Bounties in particular seem like something that could have cool twists and special events that happen - its essentially a reputation/hireability mechanic, so things like retributive raids, being sought out for special bounty hit jobs, etc.
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Alex

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2022, 05:43:57 PM »

An event bar could add a lot to exploration, I think. I love that part of the game, but it feels a bit, well, undirected. You have to set your own goals and it tends to just... peter out in the end.

An event bar could help by setting clear objectives. You reach intermediate goals (salvage a research station,  rescue a distress caller, fight a mothership, survey all of system x...) and then at the end something "happens". E.G. a new star system appears, the [redacted] try to expand to a new (your?) system, or maybe just that you get a mission that guarantees a colony item reward. Somehow I feel this might tie in well with the historian.

I think we're thinking along very similar lines - what I'm currently working on is not *exactly* that, not being focused on exploration overall, but on some specific aspects of it - but it's actually quite close!

To the degree that I even considered "mission that guarantees a colony item" as a reward somewhere along the way. Too much of that would I think undermine *actual* exploration, though - direct it too much, and it stops being exploration somewhere along the way, you know?

... but it's very interesting how it could look like.

I agree! Just, for a different game, more likely than not :)

Domain drone invasion! :P

HMMM

Looks cool! Its a nice system that really could be applied to so many things (whether or not it would be worth/good doing that is another question). Currently things like bounties, derelicts, and remnants all scale based on how many have been done, so if any of them wanted a more complicated system they could be converted to this. Bounties in particular seem like something that could have cool twists and special events that happen - its essentially a reputation/hireability mechanic, so things like retributive raids, being sought out for special bounty hit jobs, etc.

Oh, interesting, that's a really neat idea! I like it.
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Brainwright

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2022, 06:35:14 PM »

I'm honestly not too fond of the idea of "progress," in exploration.  However, it would be nice if new things to explore were generated over time, like battles between fleets that leave wrecks, more secret research outposts, and possible AI expansions.  It would be nice.
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Alex

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #81 on: September 07, 2022, 07:04:00 PM »

Yeah, it's less about "progress in exploration" and more "exploration-type actions driving some progress in something else".
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FooF

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #82 on: September 07, 2022, 07:15:07 PM »

There are a few breadcrumb-type mechanics already in the game that could help "direct" a player. For example, there are Domain Drones that lead you to the location of Domain Survey Ships which lead you to Derelict Motherships. A progress bar might be "Find 5 Domain Drones" which on the 5th Drone gives you the coordinates to a Survey ship (with some sort of mid-grade reward and/or fight) and then onward toward the Mothership. While you could find all of these on your own, if you follow the progress bar and prompts, you have more impetus to head in a particular direction.

As the Mothership is a "trainer" station fight, and Derelicts are also kind of like punching bags, something like this early on would be great for new players to cut their teeth on. After completion, the finding of the Mothership databanks directs the player to the Galatia Academy. See...it's all coming full circle :)

But I get what you're saying regarding exploration not being too directed. Only as a training experience or early questline would I want a little more handholding from the game. After that, you'd be on your own.
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Gothars

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2022, 12:20:05 AM »

Oh, yeah, I really wouldn't want it to amount to hand holding. I think the "what's over the next hill?" kind of feeling is elemental for fun exploration gameplay. My feeling is just that the game does too little to acknowledge the discoveries you make on your own. After you found all the hullmods and the colony items you want, which can often be the case after seeing 20-30% of star systems, there's little initiative to go on. The game is basically indifferent if you find your tenth research station by surfing between two neutron stars, your twentieth habitable planet with a de-civilized population and finally defeated that [redacted] station at the edge of the sector. You can only pad your own shoulder in these moments.

What I'm saying is, the early game is fine for me, it's the late game exploration that could use more structure and overarching goals.
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smithney

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2022, 02:48:29 AM »

Oh, yeah, I really wouldn't want it to amount to hand holding. I think the "what's over the next hill?" kind of feeling is elemental for fun exploration gameplay. My feeling is just that the game does too little to acknowledge the discoveries you make on your own. After you found all the hullmods and the colony items you want, which can often be the case after seeing 20-30% of star systems, there's little initiative to go on. The game is basically indifferent if you find your tenth research station by surfing between two neutron stars, your twentieth habitable planet with a de-civilized population and finally defeated that [redacted] station at the edge of the sector. You can only pad your own shoulder in these moments.
Gotta second this. It currently feels weird to me that at the same time, Pirates integrate every blueprint they get their hands on into their fleets, while all factions ignore all the tech and planets you scan and survey on their own demand. I'd eventually love to see some kind of politics between factions concerning exploration, especially since we get tangible loot that the factions would realistically want to get their hands on. A faction sending expeditions to track down where you hid the nanoforge from the research station you scanned seems like an obvious start (abandoned stations don't seem so safe anymore, do they?). If NP faction expansion ever becomes a thing, influencing it by deciding who do you survey planets for and who do you sell the spare data to afterwards is another thing I'd love to see. Heck, I know Pirates are designed for it, but wouldn't other factions want to upgrade their fleets with select blueprints if they found out a spare one just arrived on some Independent market?

If you pardon me expanding my tangent, unseen scavengers gradually ridding the player of low-hanging exploration fruit could be a counterbalance to how much dosh a player can make without going outside the core. On the other hand, faction expeditions breathing down player's neck could be a (-n exciting) hazard to explorers unprotected by faction politics, regardless of [REDACTED]. Who knows, perhaps you could make an unexpected find ambushing a scavenger returning to core worlds! Bonus points if a pather or a pirate tipped them off!
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AcaMetis

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2022, 03:37:47 AM »

I wouldn't want NPC scavengers taking away opportunities that I could have grabbed if only I rushed exploration, because that's just going to lead to a feeling of needing to rush exploration ASAP to not lose out on potential loot. It makes sense, of course, but I don't think it makes for fun gameplay necessarily.
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smithney

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2022, 04:16:27 AM »

I wouldn't want NPC scavengers taking away opportunities that I could have grabbed if only I rushed exploration, because that's just going to lead to a feeling of needing to rush exploration ASAP to not lose out on potential loot. It makes sense, of course, but I don't think it makes for fun gameplay necessarily.
Hey, I don't mean they should motivate you to rush exploration, only to make you consider whether you're fine losing on easy exploration grabs. Since comparatively, you'll be getting those easy grabs by trading, too, by getting easy money and having repeated access to various core markets. Nonetheless, I feel like there's potential fun coming from the opportunity to grab some fun loot (blueprints, perhaps even colony items) on its way to core by looking for tip-offs in bars and acting upon them.

Sorry for the off-topic, just felt like I had to explain myself.

EDIT: To drive my idea home, the two mechanics (the loss of easy grabs and scavenger ambush) could be tied together. When a scavenger or a faction expedition grabs a one-of object you could've had discovered yourself, you get a chance to find this out from a pather in a bar on a colony you're currently visiting, for a price of course. Obviously, some sort of protection should be implemented so that the game doesn't explore the sector for you, let's say the [REDACTED] make for a damn good NPC repellent ^^
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 04:25:28 AM by smithney »
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Kragh

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2022, 05:36:14 AM »

For the exploration rewards, it would definitely be nice to eventually be told the location of Cryosleepers and Hypershunts. Hypershunts are easy to find if you have the time, but Cryosleepers are 100% luck.
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Candesce

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2022, 06:57:56 AM »

Hypershunts are easy to find if you have the time, but Cryosleepers are 100% luck.
Cryosleepers... should always spawn in regions with derelict probes, right? And show up on the Neutrino Detector?

Given I pretty much always commit my early colonies before finding them, that doesn't seem like enough, no.

I think an arrow pointing directly at them might be a bit disappointing, but there should be a lot more hints narrowing down the potential region of space they might be in, so that an exploration focused player can find one of them early rather than having to comb most of the map. When the bonus is "your colonies grow faster," taking long enough to find that you could have grown your colonies the hard way in that time makes for a questionable reward.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Hostile Activity
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2022, 07:35:33 AM »

Domain drone invasion! :P

HMMM

I think it would be a pretty great event because it stands on its own and gives an early look at the mechanics of other events. Spawning probes and survey ships, drone raids on shipping, factions sending expeditions to clear them out. All stuff that comes up later when the player has their own colonies.

Heck, the faction expeditions could resolve the event themselves if the player leaves it too long - bye-bye mothership loot.
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