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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.8.0  (Read 129737 times)

its4fun

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Re: [0.96a] Support Ships Pack 0.6.2
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2023, 06:09:08 AM »

Not sure why, but this mod just refuses to work for me. Something to do with the miniscule hangar hullmod as I understand it. Tried it on a clean game with no other mods besides those necessary to run it in the first place, no luck.


Here's what the logs say, I have no clue if this is important but oh well.
Spoiler
208619 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.hullmods.supportships_MinisculeHangar]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.hullmods.supportships_MinisculeHangar]
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: 1 error(s) while compiling unit "data/hullmods/supportships_MinisculeHangar.java"
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:226)
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:178)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   ... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: 1 error(s) while compiling unit "data/hullmods/supportships_MinisculeHangar.java"
   at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileUnit(UnitCompiler.java:326)
   at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:224)
   ... 5 more
[close]
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TheSAguy

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Re: [0.96a] Support Ships Pack 0.6.2
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2023, 02:16:51 PM »

Great Mod!
Please consider making this mod compatible with the Version checker that built into Nexerelin.
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ForestFighters

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Re: [0.96a] Support Ships Pack 0.6.2
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2023, 03:55:16 PM »

Update 0.6.2

-ACTUALLY Fixed a crash when the Carton had Expanded Deck Crews installed when a fighter was slotted.
-Added version checker support

For context: The first release of 0.6.2 was not actually released, I used the wrong version.
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ForestFighters

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Re: [0.96a] Support Ships Pack 0.6.2
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2023, 06:29:11 PM »

Update 0.7.0

-Added Hopsice-Class Hospital ship
-Added Wagon-Class fighters (built in on hospice)
-Added Lammergeier (Lion's Guard)

-Changed the Ossifrage's firing arcs to encourage AI to broadside with it
-Reduced the Carton (TT)'s DP to 2

-Updated some descriptions
-Tweaked some autofits




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vinnythespy

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Re: [0.96a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.0
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2023, 07:13:16 PM »

I'm excited to try this update right now! I love ships this mod adds. Great work!
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FreedomFighter

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Re: [0.96a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.0
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2024, 11:21:11 PM »

Can I get some idea on how Hopsice works? I lug it around for vanity and how it has salvage gantry on it but not noticing much on its ambulance wings affects the battle.
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ForestFighters

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.1
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2024, 09:41:47 AM »

Update 0.7.1

-Updated to 0.97a
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Rudragun

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.1
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2024, 06:32:36 PM »

I haven't played with most of the ships in this pack, but I wanted to talk about the ones I have tried.

Maunder
The Maunder is easily my favorite, and I used it as my flagship when I was running around with frigates. I like using Elite Point Defense as my first combat skill, so I'm always on the lookout for ships with a bunch of small ballistics. I haven't used the Accelerated Ammo Feeder version, but I really enjoyed the pirate version. 2 medium missiles with Fast Missile Racks for 6 DP is quite a good deal, and all the small ballistics give it a lot of good options for outfitting. Both versions have plenty of OP, which you really need for the 2 medium mounts on a frigate. Tie it all together with good speed, and it is a lovely little thing.
I like running into enemy Maunders, too.
I didn't find space for it in my endgame fleet as 6 DP was just a little too expensive, but I think the DP cost is actually quite fair, and I might revisit it and hand it some high ammo missiles like Breaches to strip armor or Salamanders to occupy enemy PD and harass unshielded engines. The medium ballistics on the normal version seem promising too, maybe a Hypervelocity Driver and Heavy Mauler would work.
[close]
Carton (P)
The Carton (P) is a very fun addition to the pirates. I was quite surprised to find frigate/destroyer pirate fleets flinging Squalls at me, but it was a good surprise. It's limited well by its low OP and its unique hullmod that reduces missile ammo.
[close]
Dram Mk. II
Dram Mk. II doesn't seem to do anything special in LP fleets, but I haven't struggled fighting LP fleets at all this run, so I wouldn't say I could make a good judgment of it.
[close]
Tercio
The Tercio feels calibrated well. Great turret arcs and good mounts with adequate flux stats but no shield. The front plate with the damper field is very cool but a bit funky as I have had it waste a charge on its own missiles. Burn Drive feels weird, but I don't know what else it could reasonably get. It suffers from the same problems that afflict all small heavily-armored ships (not enough armor or hull to stand up to big weapons), but that's not a tick against it in the right fleet. Might be strong enough to bring to Remnants, but I didn't find a XIV version to test it.
[close]
Gemini (LC)
The Gemini (LC) feels like a fair trade. Gaining one fighter bay is great, but you lose the medium missile, and it has 0.95a stats, so 10 less speed and 10 less OP, which make it much more vulnerable than the vanilla version. Not sure it would be fair if it had both, but it could probably get the OP buff without issue. It also still has Civilian-grade Hull, which is probably just an oversight.
[close]
Nebulae
Nebulae are fun to blow up.
[close]
Aspirant
I'm still undecided if the aspirant is decent or not. Its 40 speed is just really bad (worse than the Mora), and its acceleration/deceleration stats are as bad as the Dominator but with no Burn Drive. Turn rate is fine, basically the same as an Eradicator, though the Aspirant does have a hardpoint. I didn't notice it having any particular difficulty staying on target. The armor does feel too low for a low-tech cruiser, comparable to Aurora/Gryphon, though the Aspirant is only 18 DP. The turret arcs are quite good, and the large ballistic lets you use Ballistic Rangefinder, which is always good fun. I feel like I should give this one a second look.
[close]
Ossifrage
The Ossifrage is just as frustrating as the description says. I can't find a loadout that doesn't leave it pointing its large ballistic hardpoint against a frigate 1500 su away while a cruiser comes in against its front. It turns superlatively well for a cruiser, but the AI is just so bad with this ship.
It has more OP than a Champion, but the mounts are really awkward, and it's not very tanky while being as slow as a Colossus Mk II/III. The ballistics have really good arcs, excepting the side hardpoint. The medium energy only overlaps with two small energies. The three small missiles don't feel worth the OP. I was trying to use Ballistic Rangefinder with this ship, but maybe it's not wise to use it for 4 turrets? It might be better to use 2 hypervelocity drivers and 2 light needlers or vulcans.
It doesn't really fit with the vanilla Midline set, which I do realize is intentional. They're all specialists, but the Ossifrage is explicitly not a specialist. It also has small ballistics, which don't appear in any of the vanilla Midline cruisers or capitals. Maybe it ought to get a medium missile too if it's supposed to be a generalist.
Maybe there's just a really good fit I haven't found, but it doesn't feel worth 25 DP.
[close]

Haven't used a Geoid myself, but I see them a lot in big scavenger/independent fleets.

Edit: adding a couple more. For context, my fleet is Support Doctrine with 1 capital, 3 cruisers, and a bunch of Escort Package destroyers. I basically only assign Capture orders at the start and then Defend orders on the big 'uns, though I do have to get more fancy when fighting tougher opponents, like special contact bounties or [REDACTED].
Apsis
This seems really good. It definitely feels like a premium destroyer: it's tanky, mobile, and has a pretty good weapon package. I tried it with PCLs and Sarissa. I couldn't get quite enough OP to fill all the slots and have Expanded Missile Racks, but that seems fair. I used Pulse Laser on the medium, IR Pulse Laser and Ion Cannon on the small, but I'm not settled on this yet. Between Sarissa and Active Flare Launcher, it had enough PD. The Apsis held its own pretty well in general, and I got to see it bully a pirate Eradicator away.
[close]
Sidebar
Similar to the Apsis, the Sidebar is a premium destroyer with a good overall package. Fortress Shield is always strong, but it seemed to mostly use it for getting out of trouble than for tanking, though I never set an eliminate order. It stood up to a pirate Falcon for a very respectable amount of time and was able to back off when it was in danger. I went with Phase Lance, IR Pulse Laser, a Burst PD Laser, and a Salamander. I should probably have put Breach Missiles in the small missile slot instead.
My first impression of the Slider wing in sim was that it was too strong or had too far of an engagement range, but I think it's okay after seeing it in action against a fleet instead of just a few frigates. It's probably really really good in early game, though. Compared to the Warthog, the Slider has one fewer fighter, double DPS, shields instead of flares, double engagement range, and 70 more speed. Its IR Pulse Lasers have lower hit strength, which is inconsequential for frigates but limits its ability to punch up.
[close]
Parabola
I'm not really sure how to outfit the Parabola. I tried Advanced Optics Phase Lances and Burst PD Lasers, but I don't know if that's even a good fit.
Honestly, it's probably just a poor fit for my fleet. Anyway, 3 hangars for 22 DP seems expensive considering it doesn't have a fighter system, but it does have reasonable weapon slots, flux stats, and OP compared to something like a Heron. My fleet can afford to protect backline carriers, so its mobility isn't very important to me since it doesn't usually get isolated. I should have been watching it more closely because I kind of suspect that it was needlessly sending its fighters to escort my big ships when it should have been sending them against frigates and destroyers.
I really like the sprite, by the way.
[close]
Revoker
I really like this thing. I have a level 7 officer who is pretty much perfect (System Expertise instead of Missile Specialisation, but otherwise great), so I stuck her in it and took it out for a bunch of bounties. I S-modded Expanded Magazines and Advanced Turret Gyros, and I gave it Autopulses, Squall, two Phase Lances forward, and Burst PD Lasers in the smalls. I'm still not settled on what the rear medium energies should be.
The IPCs have a really nice hit strength, so they did a lot of armor and hull damage (compare its 300 to the Hephaestus' 120 HE). The Large Energies up front have really wide arcs, so it can drive away small stuff pretty easily if they approach from the front or side. I did have to assign it an escort, which I should have expected from its 200° shield arc. I used the Sidebar as its escort and was pleased with the pair's performance. Overall, I was really happy with it. It's great at punching down, as fast as promised, and it has really good slots. 40 DP feels pretty fair, seems like it compares well to the Onslaught or Legion, depending on what kind of fleet you have. Outfitting it felt pretty straightforward after I stopped trying to force Paladin PD System in the rear syngergy slot.
Sidenote, I do feel like the Ion Pulse Cannon is a bit too loud.
[close]
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 06:57:46 AM by Rudragun »
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ForestFighters

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.1
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2024, 07:47:20 PM »

I haven't played with most of the ships in this pack, but I wanted to talk about the ones I have tried.

Hey Rudragun, thanks for the feedback!

I didn't even realize that .96 updated the Gemini, that and the Civilian-Grade hull on it are definitely an oversight from me not reading the patch notes thoroughly. I'll patch those this weekend.

The Aspirant probably should have a second look at it. It is supposed to be a cheapo cruiser, but yeah, it is probably a bit too fragile and/or slow. I'll do some testing for that. I think it is close to where it should be, I'll just maybe give it a kick in the rear.

Good to hear that you have been having a good time with the rest of the ships in your game.
Well... except for the obvious one.

Maybe there's just a really good fit I haven't found, but it doesn't feel worth 25 DP.

The Ossifrage... is maybe a bit too terrible... Like that is the role it is supposed to be, the overdesigned midline boondoggle, but it also should be usable in some fleet comps where its totally all over the place design is actually good. The turn speed is really just to help the AI, so it is a shame that they still struggle with it. The jank is the point, but it needs to be a fun jank, not a bad jank. I'll figure something out.



Would love to hear your thoughts on the bigger ships when you get to them.
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Rudragun

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.1
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2024, 07:29:15 PM »

The Aspirant probably should have a second look at it. It is supposed to be a cheapo cruiser, but yeah, it is probably a bit too fragile and/or slow. I'll do some testing for that. I think it is close to where it should be, I'll just maybe give it a kick in the rear.
I think buffing just one aspect would be fine, and I agree it's close. A bit more speed would lean into it being a fire support cruiser, or a bit more armor would lean into it being a cheap flagship cruiser.

Maybe there's just a really good fit I haven't found, but it doesn't feel worth 25 DP.
The Ossifrage... is maybe a bit too terrible... Like that is the role it is supposed to be, the overdesigned midline boondoggle, but it also should be usable in some fleet comps where its totally all over the place design is actually good. The turn speed is really just to help the AI, so it is a shame that they still struggle with it. The jank is the point, but it needs to be a fun jank, not a bad jank. I'll figure something out.
I spent some more time with it today, and it's closer to okay than I thought. Warthogs are great on it, and I hadn't tried them before. The AI does try to broadside with it, but it seems to always leave the hardpoint shy of actually being on-target. If the large ballistic were angled more toward the front of the ship or if the medium energy could be part of the broadside, I feel like it would be fine.

Rambling
I tried switching the small ballistics to energy and the medium energy to 360° arc. I felt like small ballistics don't fit the vanilla midline cruiser/capital designs (which I admit is probably unimportant), and the medium energy seems otherwise useless.
The large ballistic hardpoint is begging for a high-DPS weapon like Hephaestus or Mjolnir since it can't keep it on target and so doesn't mind the high flux costs. On the other hand, it can't rely on the hardpoint for armor damage because it can't keep it on target. Medium energy has really good anti-armor options in Heavy Blaster and Phase Lance, so you don't have to rely on the hardpoint to hit armor. I liked the change when I tried it, seemed like a decent trade for the ship.

Fit was Warthogs, Harpoons, Hephaestus, Heavy Needler in front medium, HVD in back medium, and Heavy Blaster in the energy. Range mismatch didn't seem to matter because the alpha was so high. Phase Lance seemed to do about as well as the Heavy Blaster. Warthogs are excellent with Reserve Deployment and way better than anything else I tried in that slot.

Test was autopilot 100% CR Support Doctrine Ossifrage (so Helmsmanship, Ordnance Expertise, Damage Control and Combat Endurance) and Flux Regulation from Tech tree, vs sim Dominator (Heph/Mk IX/Typhoons), Lasher, and Vigilance (Pilum). So 25 (-5 from Support Doctrine) DP vs 34 DP. Seems like it should be able to hold its own given all of those skills vs officerless sim, though Support Doctrine skills are obviously not optimal; I probably would take Ordnance Expertise, maybe Helmsmanship, and definitely Combat Endurance if I haven't gone Industry.

Anyway, the wide turret arcs really help with dealing with multiple ships. The Warthogs are the first fighter I've tried that actually managed to kill either frigate because there's too much pressure from the other ships to let it actually keep its guns on any of them long enough with three around. The autopilot fired all the Harpoons at the Lasher every time, but sometimes none of them reached it before the Warthogs killed it.

An issue seems to be that the Ossifrage tries to back away from the Dominator by turning its front against the Dominator and retreating straight backwards instead of strafing (which I think would be slower). However! With this much DPS, the Ossifrage could get the Dominator up to high flux to make it not pursue. The Ossifrage still wouldn't put its hardpoint against the Dominator that often, but it did sometimes, certainly more than before. The Dominator could usually back off safely because of the missile pressure from the Vigilance, but that seems fine, just fleet dynamics.

This has very little relevance to [REDACTED], ofc, but not every ship needs to be capable of that, and maybe there is a fit that works for it.

I don't know what kind of change you're thinking about, but I would suggest trying out increasing the arc of the medium energy. The arc doesn't even have to be to 360°, just has to be enough to bully away questing frigates and to bring it to bear against its left side, maybe 270° or 300°? Probably wouldn't want it to face forward to keep the identity of the ship. The ship really needs consistent anti-armor, and the large ballistic can provide anti-armor but not consistency. Maybe I should've tested Breach missiles in the 3 small slots before changing any of the turrets.

I could definitely see a world where the Ossifrage gets a medium missile or has the large ballistic moved more forward (or angled more forward) instead of increasing the medium energy arc, though. I just really wanted the medium energy to be useful.
[close]

Edit:
[weird Legion behavior]
Basically it was thinking that it was a broadside loadout because... the specific placement of the turrets on the Legion, combined with the range of the weapons, and the range it was checking its optimal firepower angle against, made it "miss" some of the turrets but not others.
Looks like broadside is really finicky anyway. Someone accidentally made a broadside Legion with an almost symmetrical loadout.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2024, 03:57:49 PM by Rudragun »
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ForestFighters

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.7.1
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2024, 08:48:00 PM »

Update 0.8.0

-Changed Gemini (LC) to be in line with the updated base version.
-Buffed Aspirant, now 50 max speed and 1100 armor. (was 40 speed and 800 armor)
-Reworked Ossifrage, now has a 45-degree angle mounted large ballistic hardpoint.
-Fixed up some variants that were out of date.

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Cracked Emerald

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.8.0 Tercio Related Bugs
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2024, 08:02:36 AM »

Been Playing your mod a bit, the ships are great fun! one of my favorites is the Tercio-Class. They're very fast and tough, and can quickly bring firepower to where it's needed.
Although, my taste for it is a bit tainted by a few visual bugs.

Tercio's plow is detached on the command screen.
Tercio is smaller than other destroyers on the fleet screen.
Tercio's Weapons are tucked under the plow on the fleet screen and deployment screen.
Tercio's plow is darker than it's body on the outfit screen.


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Cryovolcanic

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.8.0
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2024, 10:42:11 AM »

Just want to say this is a nice mod. Overall the ships seem balanced.

I would reduce the spawn frequency somewhat, however--pirate fleets seem filled with your ships, especially Maunders.

On the Hospice ship--this is definitely the most interesting ship in the mod for me. How do you envision it being used? Reducing crew casualties is thematically appropriate, but is a really mediocre effect. Is the idea that you can mod in things like ECM and Nav, at cruiser bonuses, but only pay 6 DP?

Maybe if you could use the Hospice ship to produce harvested organs, or improve stability on a world that's been raided. Basically some out-of-combat effect to justify dragging these guys around. Also, it should have civilian-grade hull if it doesn't already (I don't remember).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 10:46:34 AM by Cryovolcanic »
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Def16

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.8.0
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2024, 11:10:01 AM »

Love the Geoid, even if that was the only ship I'd get this mod.

On that note though, anyone else finding that the Geoid tends to completely displace the Atlas in markets? I'm generally having trouble finding the Atlas for sale now.
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ForestFighters

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Re: [0.97a] Support Ships Pack 0.8.0
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2024, 01:11:03 PM »

On the Hospice ship--this is definitely the most interesting ship in the mod for me. How do you envision it being used?
It is ultimately a mix of an RP ship and a 6 DP cruiser, unless you outfit it as a combat carrier, which it admittedly is not particularly strong at.
Out of combat effects is an interesting idea. If I can design and implement an interesting effect I will, but it may end up not happening.


On that note though, anyone else finding that the Geoid tends to completely displace the Atlas in markets? I'm generally having trouble finding the Atlas for sale now.
I would reduce the spawn frequency somewhat, however--pirate fleets seem filled with your ships, especially Maunders.

I will definitely look into this, and I have noticed that this ships in this are excessively prevalent in markets.
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