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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: Asteroid Collision  (Read 1792 times)

ihugyourmom

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Asteroid Collision
« on: August 13, 2022, 07:22:59 AM »

Hey all

So, after many hours of playing this game.. The whole asteroid collision got to me, its totally unrealistic that a fleet cant negate any impact from asteroids. Imagine Picard saying "SLOW DOWN ASTEROID FEILD AHEAD" ya i dont buy it.. larger fleets would just vaporize it, smaller fleets would fly between rocks etc..

anyway, reality negated.. its annoying me :P i have searched for ways to disable the collision detection, but cant find any. Only threat i found was this:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=23453.msg351035#msg351035

So am i left with trying to gain "access" to the java file, or is there a way to disable it. I checked the settings.json file, but couldnt find any related variable.

NB: its not a modding question, its a "is there a way" question :P
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Darloth

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2022, 08:54:32 AM »

reality?  When the ships are using a hyperspace drive bubble to move at nigh-FTL speeds even before hyperspace itself?

In addition, while not being a star trek fan enough to instantly know the reference, there are several episodes with asteroid belts in, and the ships do slow down whenever they're doing something inside said asteroid belts.  There's at least one episode I can find with a 15 second bit of searching where an asteroid hits and causes significant damage to a federation starship, although it is significantly smaller than the enterprise, which is huge.

The next obvious arguement is "well space is 3d, why don't they go around?"  Ok, but wouldn't that be slower than going straight through?  Pretty much the same game effect as just slowing down a bit.

Either way, it's an abstraction that allows for functional, plausible space terrain.  Without asteroid belts the number of large system-encircling things you can successfully hide in, or use your enhanced terrain navigation skills to pass through quicker than an opponent, or generally -interact- with is one lower, and given how many systems have asteroid belts it's a -big- one.

Sadly I can't answer your actual question solidly in either direction, making me somewhat unsure I should post this reply in the first place, because clearly your opinion about asteroid collisions and my opinion is very different to start with and given it's a fictional situation in a game with many layers of abstraction there's not really much productive debate that can be had, it's all so subjective...  But still, these are the reasons I think it's fine.

It doesn't sound like asteroid collision can currently be turned off, though investigating the AsteroidBeltTerrainPlugin.java does sound like the obvious starting point.  So to try and add a bit of value to my post, I investigated it myself.  It's been ages since I did any solid starsector modding, but if one can override AsteroidBeltTerrainPlugin.java then there's a line on line 179
Code
					hitProb = 0.5f;
suggesting that even though it calculates the changes of collision from the size of the fleet, it then ignores that and sets the collision chance to 50%.  If that were set to, say, 0%, I think that would do what you want.  Again, can't confirm as it's been a while and I can't remember how difficult overriding such a plugin is, but I'm reasonably sure it's possible... so it now sounds like it -is- possible to reduce the chance.  If you wanted to learn modding, this would be a very simple starting point, and it certainly sounds like you have the motivation needed!
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Igncom1

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2022, 09:16:35 AM »

I mean these are asteroid thickets which themselves aren't the most realistic to begin with!

Wish there was more interaction with asteroid fields in the game as even a battle among them is kinda boring, just get pelted with pebbles and such.

And asteroid bases to shoot at! Or asteroid colonies! Need more of them.
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Kos135

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2022, 10:21:09 AM »

I mean these are asteroid thickets which themselves aren't the most realistic to begin with!

Wish there was more interaction with asteroid fields in the game as even a battle among them is kinda boring, just get pelted with pebbles and such.

And asteroid bases to shoot at! Or asteroid colonies! Need more of them.
I could see a Pather sect wrangling some asteroids, strapping an engine to them and remote-controlling them into a station as a form of battering ram.
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Igncom1

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2022, 10:23:52 AM »

Well trying to set one up before getting jumped by the system patrols!  ;D
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Brainwright

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2022, 11:40:00 AM »

I think the implementation of the collisions was a bad idea.  Before, they had a chance of slowing you down, which was something fatal if you were being chased.

Now, you always slow down, no matter what.  Now I have to hold a key to dock with certain planets.  It's a bit ridiculous.

The previous behavior was fine.  Even if the notion of an asteroid impacting on your drive field was a bit dull, slowing down because you made emergency maneuvers was fine.  Hell, just say an asteroid disrupted your drive bubble.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 11:41:38 AM by Brainwright »
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Grievous69

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2022, 11:49:54 AM »

I hate hate hate my fleet hitting asteroids, such an annoying little thing that was added for "immersion". Splistreams are a godsend compared to asteroid fields.
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Sahqovum

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2022, 12:38:24 PM »

I find slipstreams to be useless most of the time. They never seem to line up with any quests I take and often run in the opposite direction. Asteroids are annoying but at least it's just a slight bump to the side and a minor speed drop as opposed to flinging you who knows where if you aren't actively watching the screen.
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Euphytose

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2022, 12:53:57 AM »

I hate hate hate my fleet hitting asteroids, such an annoying little thing that was added for "immersion". Splistreams are a godsend compared to asteroid fields.

I actually deeply hate slipstreams. So far in my current playthrough I haven't used one at all. All they do is get in the way and make me use more fuel than necessary. I honestly hope this was just some kind of test and that they will be removed in future versions.
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Darloth

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2022, 05:43:22 AM »

I'm interested in what the factor for collision regularity -ought- to be.  As mentioned right now it's just a flat 0.5 all of the time.  Maybe we're not meant to be hitting asteroids nearly this much until our fleets are huge?
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Igncom1

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2022, 05:59:57 AM »

I thought in the past you were only supposed to be hitting asteroids if you were using the sustained burn movement boost through it, as otherwise my fleet should be moving plenty slow enough to ignore them.
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Brainwright

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2022, 05:29:18 PM »

In the past you never struck asteroids, they impacted on your drive bubble.  This bumped you in a different direction and could take some time to recover a sustained burn.

Even if I didn't know what a drive bubble was, hitting the emergency break to avoid an asteroid was something sensible. 

After all, it's not like they are coming out of nowhere, and it could be punishing to have this happen while you were running away from something.  The lack of damage made it a risk worth taking.
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Serenitis

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2022, 01:27:36 AM »

Travel of any kind is just fundamentally not very interesting gameplay.
But adding things to it to force the player to interact with it is not interesting either, and can (subjectively) actually be worse than just doing nothing.

The thing is, it's okay for a game to have "downtime".
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Linnis

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2022, 11:43:07 AM »

A mechanic that hasn't really been utilized really. You cant chase a fleet into a field and expect them to collide and catch them, its just slight annoyance only.
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calantlar

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Re: Asteroid Collision
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2022, 07:52:52 AM »

If someone figures this one out then please do share.
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