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Author Topic: AI is too good handling shield  (Read 1210 times)

narf03

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AI is too good handling shield
« on: August 01, 2022, 05:05:16 AM »

Just started to learn how to pilot a ship in a battle(many ships against many ships), all the while i just let them fight, use overwhelming force to defeat my enemy.

Noticed that enemy AI is too good handling shield, they able to drop shield in the middle of fight, raise it a tiny bit, tank a shot, drop it again. When torpedo coming from behind, drop the shield at the front, then raise it to the back. I think its kind of cheating, their reflect is just too godly.

I think shield should take 2-3x more damage when raising. Their efficiency should be at the lowest during the start, and efficiency slowly increase, to punish dropping and raising in the middle of a fight.

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Grievous69

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2022, 05:11:55 AM »

AI is at the same time fantastic with shield flickers but then ruins it when it takes a full Tachyon Beam to the face or something similar. I'd say that's pretty balanced in the end. Also some of that is on you if the enemy ships can just tank damage on hull, you're not bringing enough HE firepower.
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narf03

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2022, 05:42:21 AM »

Enemy seems to understand what type of damage is coming, like they will face tank sabot rounds, and shield tank torpedo.
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SCC

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2022, 05:50:41 AM »

That's because AI knows that. It's possible to learn what damage type different projectiles are and be capable of shield flickering the most dangerous projectiles as well.

TaLaR

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2022, 06:17:34 AM »

No need to nerf anything, an experienced player can do much better job at shield flickering.

And you should never fire kinetics only, etc. Mix damage types to leave AI choosing between 2 bad options. Or keep a weapon that can near instantly punish shield drop ready, like heavy blaster, tachyon lance, etc.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 06:19:36 AM by TaLaR »
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Brainwright

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2022, 07:00:24 AM »

That's because AI knows that. It's possible to learn what damage type different projectiles are and be capable of shield flickering the most dangerous projectiles as well.

Not bloody likely.  There are typically far too many projectiles incoming for a player to reliably assess threats.

The real crime of NPC flickering is that it makes ships with shields seem too good.  If the player tries to ape the NPCs, they are going to lose hard.
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Schwartz

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2022, 07:33:49 AM »

It's a mixed bag. AI may be acutely aware of where to turn shield and when to turn it on/off when the battlefield is relatively simple. But it will also misjudge threats. Best example is phase mines. Or shrink away from a couple of Harpoons halfway across the screen instead of letting them plink shields. A Paragon at near zero flux may also decide to drop shields sometimes for no reason. It is a mix of too-careful and careless and often it works out well. Certainly when a new player finds that the AI is "too good" I'm just happy to hear it, because to me it's "okay", it has its bright points and a bunch of weaknesses.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 07:35:55 AM by Schwartz »
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Darloth

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2022, 07:38:23 AM »

As a vague guide, if it's white or grey it's kinetic damage, if it's orange or yellow or brown it's explosive damage, if it's another fancy colour it's energy damage or maybe a HVD kinetic.

Missiles don't follow this rule at all, but you can just learn to identify most missiles after a while.

Anything else is usually beyond me, but in vanilla I too know what damage is incoming most of the time.  Of course mods totally break this as you get weird green splitting bolts of kinetic to energy mirv shells or missiles that explode into minefields of frag damage that deals extra HE if it hits engines or other weird conditions.

The AI is very good at not missing an incoming shot, but it's terrible about knowing WHEN to drop shields, vent, drop into or especially OUT of phase (the torpedoes have missed! drop out and shoot them!), and other such things.

It also tends to be timid where I'd be bold, and then rush in where I'd go cautiously.  This has resulted in me killing many more ships, and also being overloaded far more than the Steady AI :)
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narf03

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2022, 07:41:16 AM »

No need to nerf anything, an experienced player can do much better job at shield flickering.

And you should never fire kinetics only, etc. Mix damage types to leave AI choosing between 2 bad options. Or keep a weapon that can near instantly punish shield drop ready, like heavy blaster, tachyon lance, etc.

not asking anybody to nerf them, thats why its not in suggestion but in discussion, i wanna see how others see that trick.
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Nimiety

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2022, 07:58:41 AM »

Player can do it too, with a bit of play time. Learning how to angle your ship and raise your shield to protect yourself from torpedoes is fun!

I am a big fan of omni shield conversions specifically to protect against flanking frigates and their reaper torps. Especially on those low tech capitals.
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Euphytose

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Re: AI is too good handling shield
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2022, 09:01:11 AM »

In my opinion, even if you can get good at shielding, you can't get any better than the AI. You have the advantage, as a player, of assessing threats much better though. You know when you can just rush in, and when it's time to back off.
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