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News:

Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

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Author Topic: About the new "Lion's Guard" ships teased in "Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2"  (Read 2412 times)

Hulkninja

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Am I correct in my interpretation that they'll just be a worse version of the already existing (except for the "Executor") ships..?

Won't that kind of defeat their purpose as "elite" units..?
I do get that they're mostly for show, but it would be nice to have a viable alternative to the seemingly far superior XIV Battlegroup variant hulls.
(As in, specifically other variant hulls, I know there are already plenty more ships which are at least as viable.)

They're described within the post as having been modified to "include blast-proof insulated paneling" with the goal being "to protect the lives of the Supreme Executor’s most loyal servants."
Yet, the hull mod is then explained to cause MORE crew casualties, thus seemingly doing the polar opposite of what it's meant to do.

It doesn't provide any other form of additional protection, either, as far as I can tell.
The ships DO get Solar Shielding, but it comes with a reduction in OP equal to what it would cost to install yourself, so it seems there's really no gain from it.

Is the Diktat really this backwards..?
Am I missing something important?
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Grievous69

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Am I missing something important?
Pages upon pages on the actual blog post thread where people said the same thing as you. Eventually it seems Alex listened to feedback and made some changes (which are currently unknown).
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Please don't take me too seriously.

Igncom1

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Seems to me they are more like a prestigious marching band than a elite fighting force, especially seeing as they don't even fight pirates the utter jobbers.  ;D

Or Rome's Praetorians who err........ aren't known for their battlefield performances but something else.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Nimiety

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The only benefit of built in solar shielding would be that you can build in two other logistics hullmods without hitting the cap, thats it. Were you going to do that on any warship? Probably not.

The pirates can build in a cheap augmented drive fields onto their falcon, and the pathers can build in safety overrides on everything, but the sindrians are just so incompetent they can't even do solar shielding right (despite inventing the hullmod) and they *** up the blast doors hullmod so bad it makes crew deaths go up instead of down.
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Amoebka

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Have to drive home the point about dictatorships being bad and inefficient. How else would you know that if an indie space sim didn't teach you?
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smithney

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The most important information you are missing is that this isn't even their final form as Grievous69 said. I'm just repeating the fact to avoid... misunderstanding.

Another important information is that these are supposed to be manned by elite officers (imagine max. level with extra elite skills, but likely not set in stone), so you can expect they are still gonna pack a punch even if the ships are built suboptimally. In addition to that, I expect that the only ship being far from its best performance would be the Executor due to... overcompensation. *nudge nudge* Afaik the other LG ships won't have to worry about being turned to overengineered Mk. II Mudskippers, neither will Executors in filthy regular SD hands.

Finally, what do you mean by "is the Diktat really this backwards"? As if you even had the chance against the best of the best of Sindria, handpicked and trained under the ever watchful eye of the Lion of Sindria himself, armed by the very best the Diktat had to offer. Try fighting them under the burning radiance of Askonia; they were born in it, molded by it. You literally won't be able to anywhere else unless you train them out to the open.



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Hulkninja

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Am I missing something important?
Pages upon pages on the actual blog post thread where people said the same thing as you. Eventually it seems Alex listened to feedback and made some changes (which are currently unknown).

Wait... The blog posts have a comment section..?

Oh, indeed they do...

I guess this means I need to re-increase the dosage of my ADHD meds.
Seeing as I totally failed to notice this, and all...

Anyhow, thanks for helping me figure this out!
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SCC

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Another important information is that these are supposed to be manned by elite officers (imagine max. level with extra elite skills, but likely not set in stone), so you can expect they are still gonna pack a punch even if the ships are built suboptimally.
Didn't Alex said those positions are political in nature, rather than meritocratic, leading to shiny ships being piloted by officers fit only for parades?

FooF

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Basically. The Lion’s Guard are yes-men that lick boots more than lead men. I wouldn’t expect them to be competent captains but more like political schemers. Perhaps some of them still have a shred of dignity but I would imagine most of the Lion’s Guard are propaganda pieces and parade fleets.
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Igncom1

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Yes men with untested wonder weapons in ships with unnecessary harmful modifications made by our GLORIOUS LEADER!

The non-moded ships with decent officers from the regular fleet will hit about as hard with their poorly funded forces.

The player..... the player will SLAY with those wonder weapons and can probably find builds to take advantage of the modded ships if you can't just undo them in your service.

Imagine it, just paying a 5000 credits restoration to fix the stupid mistakes and turn them into the elites they were meant to be!
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

SafariJohn

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In the current version LG has great officers. I didn't see Alex mention changing that anywhere.

I would prefer to see good LG ships with terrible officers and loadouts. I think that would better show "underlings are competent, officer corp is full of yes-men".

Benefits:
- Low skill LG officers reduces difficulty
- Rewards players with flashy, better-than-average ships and weapons
- Teaches players to isolate fleets they want to fight because Sindrian regulars have a lot better officers and loadouts
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smithney

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Didn't Alex said those positions are political in nature, rather than meritocratic, leading to shiny ships being piloted by officers fit only for parades?
I guess, but the Diktat leadership wouldn't be so stupid as to cut them slack on training, right? :D ...Right? :^

@SafariJohn
Makes sense. Hopefully that's the direction Alex is going.
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Thaago

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Have to drive home the point about dictatorships being bad and inefficient. How else would you know that if an indie space sim didn't teach you?

Given the reactions from people in pages and pages of comments... I think that most people don't know or willfully disbelieve the mountains of evidence.
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CrashToDesktop

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I really liked the idea that the Lion's Guard were supposed to be a parade ground branch of the military with less-flexible ships lead by political officers rather than career captains - it speaks to the manner that Andrada runs his empire. Not every ship has to be necessarily good or have a niche in the player fleet, so I've no problem with the at-cost Solar Shielding or the Special Modifications D-Mod (the latter of which can be removed anyway).

I'm a bit disappointed that the forums bit Alex quite harshly for what, in the end, will probably be a relatively minor aspect of the game that most players won't even use themselves, and will probably influence Alex's decision-making in the future - in fact, it's already made Alex less-forthcoming in sharing his ideas. I'm also a bit disappointed that Alex bent to it instead of sticking to his guns like he has with other design decisions. In any case, something as small as this won't stop me from enjoying the game.
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Note: please sacrifice your goats responsibly, look up the proper pronunciation of Alex's name. We wouldn't want some other project receiving mystic power.

SafariJohn

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Not every ship has to be necessarily good or have a niche in the player fleet

Sadly the game does not have anywhere to show off decorative ships. For example, Tradewinds games got extra mileage out of their low-end ships by showing them in the ports.

LG ships that are meh mechanically but look cool would totally fit in some decorative section of the game like showing them flying by in port or in space. If there were multiple ships and fighters flying in formation it would be extra cool.


Have to drive home the point about dictatorships being bad and inefficient. How else would you know that if an indie space sim didn't teach you?

Given the reactions from people in pages and pages of comments... I think that most people don't know or willfully disbelieve the mountains of evidence.

The game positions the player as a hyper-competent militant dictator - kind of undercuts the "dictators bad" message. (curb player power pls)
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