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Author Topic: About the new "Lion's Guard" ships teased in "Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2"  (Read 4001 times)

Kos135

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I don't mind the d-mod on the Lion's Guard ships or the lore narrative about Andrada being a meddlesome micro-manager, just as long as the LG ships aren't straight downgrades from their normal versions (they're not) and Andrada isn't portrayed as a cartoonish moron (he isn't).

Every faction has negative aspects and if the Sindrian Diktat is centered around Andrada, his narcissism, and the cult of personality that he's built around himself, then it makes sense that some problems would stem from that. The Luddics are held back by their hatred of technology, the Persean League has its lack of unifying ideology, Tri-Tachyon has a bunch of skeletons in its closet, the Hegemony has... I don't know. Oppressive laws? Corrupt officials?
The Sindrians have Andrada and his ego.
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You cannot trick an honest man, only a villain will fall for it.

Hatter

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I just want to stop hearing about the new LG changes until the ships are actually in the game. Then we can litigate it over ten pages.
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BigBrainEnergy

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I just want to stop hearing about the new LG changes until the ships are actually in the game. Then we can litigate it over ten pages.
Yeah, I can't wait to have those arguments. At this point everything that can be said has been said given the limited information we have. Nothing left to do but wait for the next update.
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TL;DR deez nuts

Grievous69

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The rhetorical sarcastic arguments made against presenting a bad thing as a bad thing seems like a common and growing occurrence these days. Making too many morally grey characters almost seems to lead to creating bad characters that are almost justified in their badness, even to the point that people end up actually agreeing with the bad character.
I literally have the opposite experience, too much characters that are either pure good or pure evil. You explained a well written character and then said that's bad... If I'm consuming certain media and see a character that's bad just for the sake of being bad then it makes it very boring, it's like reading a fairy tale for children. Characters being morally grey is what makes it interesting, as the vast majority of people have certain goals and rules they live by in life. That's what makes them believable and more realistic. Sure there's always an absolute worst of the worst of humans, and vice versa, but those are exceptions.

Back on track, I'm really glad to hear about those LG changes.
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smithney

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What would be more stupid - having a cadre of less skilled but absolutely reliable officers form what's essentially your personal guard and a nucleus around which your other, less reliable forces might rally in the event of an attempted coup, or having more qualified officers in these positions - in a fleet that's not intended to see much combat, anyway! - whose loyalties are less certain?
Ooh, a question by the auteur, can't let that slide ^^

Since Andrada decided that ending his career by getting unceremoniously relegated to Ragnar is less preferable to being ceremoniously thrown into Askonia, yeah, it makes sense that he would like a reliable meathsield around him. Still, I was thinking about the LG pilots more in terms of those less reliable forces you are mentioning. More like impressionable young useful idiots drilled into subordination by the nucleus you were talking about and used like living weapons (raised from what would be the Diktat's version of Hitlerjugend). On the other hand, it's probably easier to get the point across in way similar to that outlined by SafariJohn.

@character morality thread
Personally, I find the best characters to be morally fluid over time. For example George Martin does this exceptionally well in his most famous saga: you get to see characters cross the moral event horizon, only to see the moral horizon shift as you explore other characters, only to see the same characters dip again. Due to this, you also see characters balance on the moral horizon vary in greyness, despite never really diverging from their baseline. This is obviously very hard for the writer to do, especially considering the limitations, so I don't expect this to happen in Starsector. I will be happy with most characters being generally grey, with a healthy dose of decidedly dark characters (shoutout to David for Cotton and Kanta btw), given the setting. In fact, I wouldn't mind anything as long as it doesn't ruin the immersion ^^

edit
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 12:02:36 AM by smithney »
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Amoebka

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More like impressionable young useful idiots drilled into subordination by the nucleus you were talking about and used like living weapons (raised from what would be the Diktat's version of Hitlerjugend).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Diktat as a faction is only about 25 years old at the time of the game, no? The indoctrinated youth is not old or experienced enough to captain spaceships.
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smithney

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Diktat as a faction is only about 25 years old at the time of the game, no? The indoctrinated youth is not old or experienced enough to captain spaceships.
You're right, I let myself drift away on imagination. This doesn't rule out the possibility that they were impressionable youngsters who started out in the Hegemony, but yeah, I'm stretching it at this point.
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Alex_P

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Since Andrada decided that ending his career by getting unceremoniously relegated to Ragnar is less preferable to being ceremoniously thrown into Askonia, yeah, it makes sense that he would like a reliable meathsield around him. Still, I was thinking about the LG pilots more in terms of those less reliable forces you are mentioning. More like impressionable young useful idiots drilled into subordination by the nucleus you were talking about and used like living weapons (raised from what would be the Diktat's version of Hitlerjugend). On the other hand, it's probably easier to get the point across in way similar to that outlined by SafariJohn.
There's something else, too: "royal guard" type forces can become quite independently-minded over time, like the Praetorians or Mamluks. If that's a concern the dictator has, they may well be putting organizational structure in place to encourage direct loyalty to the overlord even at the expense of some camaraderie and cohesion. I can easily imagine the vibe of a Lion's Guard posting being very buttoned-down and policed, as a result of really really emphasizing devotion to the one cause and the supreme leader at the expense of some part of the trust military people normally develop in their peers and their direct superiors.
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