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Author Topic: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early  (Read 5191 times)

Vanshilar

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2022, 08:53:41 PM »

To be honest I think LP Brawler priced at 7 DP sounds about right. It has SO built-in and has AAF with 2 medium ballistics, basically most of a Hammerhead's offensive capability but with a lot more speed and maneuverability.

My fleet of Medusa (with me manually piloting), 5 Falcon XIV's (no officers), and 22 LP Brawlers (no officers) using Support Doctrine is a total of 155 DP, so in theory I could fight [REDACTED] fleets at 260 battle size. But in practice, fighting at around 330 to 350 battle size (i.e. using only around 45% of battle size) means I finish the fights around 15% more quickly, because the enemy fleet simply replenishes lost units too slowly at smaller battle sizes; there's simply too much offensive capability going up against too few [REDACTED] ships and my ships end up waiting around at the spawn point for new spawns to come in, wasting PPT. So it's simply too cheap. Whereas at around 330-350 battle size, my fleet gradually works its way to the spawn point around the end of the fight, so it seems closer to the appropriate DP.

At 7 DP each, my fleet would be 199 DP (remembering Support Doctrine), which at 60% of battle size implies the battle size would be around 332. That seems to match the power of the ship much more closely.

(Fun fact, at 8 DP, my fleet would still be 199 DP, since with Support Doctrine it ends up being 6 DP if the ship's original DP was 7 or 8.)
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2022, 02:03:30 AM »

Dude in Discord soloed them with a hulltanked amb Doom. Think it was a max level character though.
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Grievous69

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2022, 02:09:51 AM »

I think SCC also did that if I'm not mistaken, but I'm fine with that since you need an expensive ship and a very specific build.
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SCC

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2022, 02:25:11 AM »

I was about to say that I didn't, but then I remembered I actually did, by abusing AI's fear of Doom. So I guess there's that.
It just backs off into mines
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Delta_of_Isaire

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2022, 02:58:02 AM »

I want to find and kill the guardians ASAP so that I can play around with their weapons during my playthrough(rather than leaving them until the end when it would be easy with a large, pimped out fleet but then there would be nothing left to do anyway).

What would be good early accessible fleet compositions for this?

As it happens that was the premise of my last playthrough. Speedrun the hypershunt battles, and then savescum them to try to get the weapons I wanted. (Result: the types of weapons dropped after the battle is largely fixed, however there is some randomness to the quantity of each weapon type dropped. So if you want multiple copies of a specific weapon, then savescumming can be worthwhile.)

The danger posed by Omega's is twofold: high damage output of the Tesseracts, and swarming  effect of the shards and fighters. To withstand the high damage output you want to use capital ships, and possibly Apogees and Monitors. Less tanky ships than those will get picked off and destroyed too easily. To deal with the swarming enemies I find Locust missiles to be particularly effective.

Getting an Alpha core Radiant is the single best thing you can do to prepare for these battles. You can reliably get an alpha core from the scientist's tech cache mission, and you can get an easy guaranteed Radiant encounter from the Red Planet mission (although you may have to savescum the fight for the Radiant to be recoverable). The best possible Radiant loadout in my experience is 3x Plasma Cannon + 2x Locusts + 4x Sabots, with some burst PD in the rear.

The other key ship to look at is the Conquest. Of all the capital ships the Conquest is by far the easiest to get, by buying it from the black market on Neutral, Diktat or League planets. It isn't the tankiest ship out there, however it brings a lot of firepower to the table including two important Locust mounts. Use a symmetrical weapon loadout with Locusts. For example, Mark IX + Mjolnir + Mauler + Dual Flak + Ion Beam on each side.

My fleet for the omega battles ended up being an alpha core Radiant, two Conquests with lvl 5 Officers, and player-piloted Paragon. All with 2 S-mods. Altogether I did close to 20 omega battles and won easily every time, only once or twice losing a ship. The strategy was ordering the Radiant + 1 Conquest to Engage one Tesseract, while the other Conquest and myself in the Paragon dealt with the second Tesseract. My overall impression is that this fight is actually easier than endgame Remnant fights. For one, I am honestly more scared of alpha core Radiants than I am of Tesseracts. For another, the absence of a dozen frigates and destroyers constantly flanking your ships helps a lot. Having just two enemies to worry about makes everything a lot easier, particularly for the AI, even if they are tough enemies.

If you don't have a Paragon (I was lucky to have one), then I recommend piloting a Monitor to draw fire from one Tesseract while ~3 Conquests are shooting at it. So a fleet of Radiant + 4 Conquests + Monitor should do the trick.

Finally, do you need to be lvl 15 to do it? Well you don't need a lot of personal skills if you sit in a Monitor. You need to be lvl 10 to get the Red Planet mission though. Also reaching lvl 15 is really not that difficult if you optimize for it. Spend your story points on 100% bonus XP options to have constant double XP, and maximize your XP bonus by using a small fleet without officers. If you are a decent pilot you can solo a lot of battles. Early game with SO Hammerhead or SO Falcon, later on with a Conquest, Odyssey, SO Eagle, SO Aurora or Doom. Or indeed the Ziggurat which you can get extremely early if you know where to look, although I'm not a phase kind of person so I wouldn't know.
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TuxedoCatfish

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2022, 04:35:09 AM »

The Ziggurat can be brought down relatively early by making heavy use of the Harbinger's ship system and the Ziggurat can easily solo doritos.
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Amoebka

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2022, 06:29:06 AM »

We need Grievous to make a thread praising AI core officers and remnant ships and stating how he definitely doesn't want any nerfs there.
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Grievous69

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2022, 06:49:07 AM »

I don't get that one, is something broken with AI officers and ships right now?
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Vanshilar

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2022, 09:20:39 AM »

As it happens that was the premise of my last playthrough. Speedrun the hypershunt battles, and then savescum them to try to get the weapons I wanted. (Result: the types of weapons dropped after the battle is largely fixed, however there is some randomness to the quantity of each weapon type dropped. So if you want multiple copies of a specific weapon, then savescumming can be worthwhile.)

The mediums and smalls are affected by your salvage % (both the skill and any Salvage Rigs or Shepherds you have in your fleet). The larges are fixed. So if you're looking to savescum, I usually just nuke them with various amounts of salvage % until I get the combination of weapons that I want, then make sure I have that much salvage % from the skill or Salvage Rigs or Shepherds when I do the fight "for real".

Since the larges are fixed as far as I know, this means the only way to get the large that you want may be to roll the bounty fleet. I think that would mean saving before you accept the bounty, then nuke the bounty, see what large(s) you get, and if it's not the one you want, go back to the save before accepting the bounty, don't take it, and wait for it to be offered again; I think that results in a different loot seed.
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Grievous69

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2022, 10:03:41 AM »

I'm like 99% sure Salvage rigs don't affect weapon drops, or anything of rare kind, just supplies, fuel and that stuff. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Amoebka

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2022, 10:10:24 AM »

They don't affect the amount of weapons dropped (at least not linearly), but they affect the RNG seed. Higher salvage bonus % doesn't always means more weapons, but it means a different selection (can be more or less in total).
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2022, 04:51:13 PM »

Wait, could you mothball or scuttle your salvage ships to change the loot RNG?
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2022, 07:18:22 PM »

Wait, could you mothball or scuttle your salvage ships to change the loot RNG?
n e a t
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Vanshilar

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2022, 10:32:59 PM »

I'm like 99% sure Salvage rigs don't affect weapon drops, or anything of rare kind, just supplies, fuel and that stuff. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I have no idea about regular weapons (never bothered to test them), but they do affect Omega drops. The amount stays roughly the same though (it's almost always 2 larges, 6 to 8 mediums, and 7 to 12 smalls), but which mediums and smalls you get will change. The larges seem to stay the same regardless of your salvage %.

For example, you can take the seed MN-4397275661880517552, go to Delta O Toka, and the Omega loot that you get should match with the attached image, depending on whether or not you have the salvage skill and how many Salvage Rigs or Shepherds you have. As you can see, it's one of the rare ones where you only get 1 large, and it will always be the same one (Rift Cascade Emitter), but the other weapons will depend on your salvage % (and it seems like you get more smalls than usual to make up for the missing large). In this case, this part of the lootgen code with the fight's loot seed seems to favor Cryoflamers and Shock Repeaters. Oh well, I was hoping for Cryoblasters and AMSRM or Minipulsers.

Wait, could you mothball or scuttle your salvage ships to change the loot RNG?

Mothballed ships will not count toward your salvage %, so yes if you mothball a Salvage Rig or Shepherd it'll affect the loot RNG (i.e. count as if it's not there).

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Null Ganymede

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Re: Coronal Hypershunt guardians early
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2022, 02:35:07 AM »

Stuff like this should really go into a "stupid dwarf trick" wiki page or megathread. It and min-maxing fleet outmatch via unassigned officers + degunned civilian ships are too niche to really be broken but amazingly nifty.
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