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[SCC]

give it a bubble shield and active flares

[Amoebka]

give it a bubble shield and active flares

Yeah, personally I would love that. Active flares double down on the support aspect, and give it much needed PD. The shield could simply have its arc increased (again..) to 180, so that frontal conversion makes it 360. Right now you need both frontal AND extended to get full coverage, which is unreasonably pricey for a shield with mediocre ratio and tiny capacity.

EDIT: Perhaps to make it less boring (changing systems to active flares is a meme at this point) and give the ship more survivability against fighters, it could be some "active flak canisters" instead. The projectiles could track missiles/fighters and explode on proximity.

[SCC]

But Omen is the anti fighter escort already, why make Vigilance the same thing?

[Igncom1]

It does feel like people want the Vigilance to be not the Vigilance.

[smithney]

I think there's a bigger discussion to be had on the role of flare systems. I don't think there's something inherently wrong or uncool with them, they are just ubiquitous. It's basically the go-to defensive system for every non-tanky hull. On the other hand, what other options are there in this situation? I can imagine a system which would make the ship dip into p-space for a short amount of time, but it would have to be justified lore-wise and it still probably wouldn't be a good fit for most of these cases. That said, I suppose flare systems can be diversified so they feel more natural for the ships that use them. With that in mind, Active Flare Launcher does sound like a natural choice for the squishy Vigilance.

It does feel like people want the Vigilance to be not the Vigilance.

Considering they have trouble even agreeing on what Vigilance is I'd say people want Vigilance to be at least something :^

[Grievous69]

Although Vigilance might become a cool choice if the upcoming laser missiles are going to be strong. For example the kinetic missile that's basically a Grab beam couple with IR Autolance gives Vigilance nice pressure and defense against fighters. It's still vulnerable to missiles tho.

[Amoebka]

But Omen is the anti fighter escort already, why make Vigilance the same thing?

Why does Monitor has 2 flak cannons if Omen is the anti-fighter escort already? Fleet support frigates need to be able to fend off fighters somehow. Vigilance doesn't have weapon mounts to do that, so the system has to take care of it. You could give it a built-in heavy burst laser or something, I guess, but that's a more invasive change.

[SCC]

Flares, ubitiquous? If combat ships (why do you even take non combat ships into consideration, you will never see them in combat on your side lol), only Hound, Wayfarer (iirc) and Apogee use them.

It does feel like people want the Vigilance to be not the Vigilance.

Vigilance would have to be 3 DP, if it remained as it is. It's a kite that trades mobility and so survivability for more firepower, except this firepower isn't enough to make them competitive with Gryphon or Falcon P.

But Omen is the anti fighter escort already, why make Vigilance the same thing?

Why does Monitor has 2 flak cannons if Omen is the anti-fighter escort already? Fleet support frigates need to be able to fend off fighters somehow. Vigilance doesn't have weapon mounts to do that, so the system has to take care of it. You could give it a built-in heavy burst laser or something, I guess, but that's a more invasive change.

Ironically,  Monitor doesn't need any PD at all, since it can just tank fighters,  and missiles... I haven't used Monitor much and I never really cared for its flak. It's there to tank damage, not kill anything.

[Amoebka]

Although Vigilance might become a cool choice if the upcoming laser missiles are going to be strong. For example the kinetic missile that's basically a Grab beam couple with IR Autolance gives Vigilance nice pressure and defense against fighters. It's still vulnerable to missiles tho.

I fail to see the logic. Even if the new missiles are powerful (they won't be), you could mount them on better ships. None of them are regenerating/infinite, so FMR gives no amazing synergy.

[Üstad]

It would help to have request artillery button from escorts, AI missile logic is far from good enough, manual request would both partly fix the AI issue and make Vigilance useful.

[smithney]

Flares, ubitiquous? If combat ships (why do you even take non combat ships into consideration, you will never see them in combat on your side lol), only Hound, Wayfarer (iirc) and Apogee use them.

Why do I take non-combat ships in consideration? Dunno about you, but to me having a "default" ship system is a big nerf to cool factor. Do you think the Flare Launcher meme would exist if this wasn't a thing?

[SCC]

Manjets are similarly bland, yet also a thing.

[smithney]

Manjets are similarly bland, yet also a thing.

Funny that you mention them. Another "default" system, yet I don't hear people complain about it as much. One of the reasons might be that it feels integral to the battleships that use it rather than as an afterthought. Another might be that it feels "at home" in midline as much as other mobility systems do in their respective tech schools. I would take an inspiration from mobility systems if flare systems were to be given a look at.

[SCC]

Ships with manjets, such as Conquest, Eagle, hold up in spite of having manjets as the ship system. Most ships with flares, though, are lame, such as Hound or expdrones. Apogee has active flares, and yet it's hailed as one of the better high-tech ships. Regular flares suffer from finite charges and from poor flare launcher placement.

You can place lots of flare launchers and achieve better coverage than a Buffalo Mk II

In case you are wondering, this is a picture from an old mod, on an old Starsector version. This is the first example that came to my head, though.

[close]

[Schwartz]

Apogee is just too good despite. Give it a proper ship system and it would have to be nerfed some other way - probably by making it at least 25 DP. Mobility system is a perfect fit for the Conquest because it's overgunned, so the value of the ship system increases dramatically in ships that need it. Flares are a close-to-nothing system. I can't decide if I would like to see them buffed or just gone and replaced.