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[Dadada]

...and they are in every market...

They should be ED submarket exclusive... At least they were in the mod builds I used in the last major game build 0.95.1...
I think ED submarkets should spawn on some independent markets and include a ship and weapon shop, at least they did in the mod versions I used in 0.95.1 Starsector.

[Desudesudesu]

...and they are in every market...

They should be ED submarket exclusive...

By every market I mean every planet. The stock ships are only in ED and independent markets but the black market of any planet nearly always has them, especially the pirate ships which are carriers.

[Nick XR]

...and they are in every market...

They should be ED submarket exclusive...

By every market I mean every planet. The stock ships are only in ED and independent markets but the black market of any planet nearly always has them, especially the pirate ships which are carriers.

I'll look into toning down the number of ED ships in the pirate market.

[B2]

Hello ED/Nick !
Thanks a lot for your mod, i play with it for a few days now and it is wonderfull !
I managed to get a Groenendael and it is the best flag ship ever, not too powerfull, just superb as a flagship.
I also got a Leonberger, letting the IA play it is so fun to watch 

Yesterday evening I met the Riptide... ouch, what a monster ! First attempt it took out 6 or 8 of my capital before I managed to kill it  One of the most incredible battle I ever had in Starsector !

Spoiler

Second attempt, with a few Shibas and Chiuahuas to disturb it and in command of an Onslaugh, after the Groenendael run to CR 0 clearing the main fleet , I made the kill loosing only 2 capitals (thanks the burn drive to dodge tractor beam and reaper waves), but what an amazing corida ! 

[close]

Great mod !

[Nick XR]

Version 2.6.2 Released

• New bounty given out by pirates
• Prism Freeport again has an ED Submarket
• Newfoundland (the train) now gently pushes away friendly ships it would collide with.  This helps a LOT with collisions.
• Reduced pirate ship spawn frequency weighting

[d_ted]

Howdy;

Can we replace "push them gently" with "shove them like mean mofo", please. Good thinking though.

[Dadada]

• Newfoundland (the train) now gently pushes away friendly ships it would collide with.  This helps a LOT with collisions.

Nice 

[Nick XR]

Howdy;

Can we replace "push them gently" with "shove them like mean mofo", please. Good thinking though.

It's not perfect, friendlies still do get hit, but it's the best I could figure out how to do.  I initially tried to detect the collision and prevent damage from happening, but there's no good way to tell that damage is via collision in a listener.  At least that I could figure out.  Maybe in a future release I'll look at it again.

[Argonautis]

Howdy;

Can we replace "push them gently" with "shove them like mean mofo", please. Good thinking though.

It's not perfect, friendlies still do get hit, but it's the best I could figure out how to do.  I initially tried to detect the collision and prevent damage from happening, but there's no good way to tell that damage is via collision in a listener.  At least that I could figure out.  Maybe in a future release I'll look at it again.

It still destroys a lot of ships. Especially phase ships, for shove reason the keep phasing out on his tail.
From my observations so far it looks like they don't realise it's so big. It looks like the game don't "see" his tail when calculating pathfinding for ships. Not sure how else to explain it.
Also I noticed on the tactical map during battle is icon is 1/3 of what it's supposed to be, don't know if that's connected with the fact that friendlies don't "see" the rest of the ship.

[BFEL]

So I'm just gonna say that the Wurgandal is taken WAAAAAAY too seriously by this mod.
I just finished the bounty mission for it, and was surprised that it was recoverable with a story point.
Naturally, I took the bait and found myself failing the mission, forfeiting my million credits and getting a RIDICULOUS -200 rep with Independents, ensuring no matter how much they liked me before that I'm now public enemy number 1.

I also vaguely recall the "correct" way to get the ship involved buying it for something insane like 10 million credits.

Now to be fair, I know the mission DOES note not to recover it. That's fine. The mission failing and getting a rep hit would be fine, but it should be like, -20 or -50 at the absolute most.

And all of that for a ship that honestly? Not even vaguely worth the hype.
I literally only wanted it as a glorified artillery piece for ground battles.

Cuz uh, even in the most favorable of sim conditions, its just not that good.
It's basically a squishy Paragon with a bunch of fighter wings. That are all forced to be drones. Now drones have some of the best wings in the game with the remnant stuff, but those are expensive and hard to get, so its kinda meh on that.

The problem I see is that 90% of the shield generation is coming from the frontal shield modules...which by default aren't fully protected by the shield. In the direction it is most likely to take damage from. So they will inevitably blow up, not having the hull or armor to survive sustained fire. At which point the entire ship becomes nigh defenseless because its entire shield is now a pencil.

So you have a "Battlecarrier" type ship, that can't properly defend itself, is massively expensive and difficult to properly supply the carrier portion of, and if I hadn't edited the deployment limit up as high as I have, it wouldn't be able to deploy with enough support to try and address those problems
It feels like it's trying to be everything at once, and predictably failing at everything.
And this thing is supposed to be worth vengeful Independents or 10 mil.

I have genuinely gotten crazy awesome combat results from the Newfoundlands, and I'm on the previous starsector version and thus having the full ramming problem, but this supposed Super Dreadnought is trash. Frankly between the actual size of its sprite, its squishiness and in the test a weirdly high manueverability/speed for its class, I would honestly call this thing a heavy cruiser more then a "World Eater"

And all this would be fine more or less, if it didn't feel like the teachers pet with its TWO High Maintenence mods, and utterly INSANE cost to obtain, either in money or reputation.
Am I just missing something?

[Nick XR]

Thank you for the feedback on the Wugandal!

For the Wugandal acquisition mission, generally speaking it's an end-game activity where the challenge of battling the fleet is supposed to be a fun and unique encounter.  That you give up 1M and take a rep hit at the end of the game is IMO largely irrelevant at that stage of the game.  The goal of the consequences is that you remember what you did and it appears to be working.

Balance wise it sounds like it's working as intended.  It's a high tech ship with 6 large mounts and a ton of support weapons and fighters for the OP cost of just a bit less than two Paragons.  In addition it's main cannon can destroy entire fleets / turn the  tide of battle in a single shot if the situation is ideal.  But it's not invincible, not even close; if it gets surrounded it can get blown to pieces pretty fast.  This is the game balance I'm going for.

Most of the issues you point out can be overcome with S-mods and it turns the wurg into an absolute terror.  It's a lot of s-mods on a vanilla-ish play through but if you use something like the excellent Progressive S Mods it's not quite as bad.  Some people have shared their excellent wurg builds on the Discord, but they're pretty different than the base Wurg, but a lot of the fun in this game is figuring out the best way to equip a ship so the base Wurg is by design sub-optimal.

To your point about the operational cost, again this is gotten at the end-game where economic concerns are largely irrelevant to the player. 

[Mr_8000]

Thank you for the feedback on the Wugandal!
For the Wugandal acquisition mission, generally speaking it's an end-game activity where the challenge of battling the fleet is supposed to be a fun and unique encounter.  That you give up 1M and take a rep hit at the end of the game is IMO largely irrelevant at that stage of the game.  The goal of the consequences is that you remember what you did and it appears to be working.

This is well and good but the end game can last as long as you want, and building back indie rep is unquestionably not fun.

Balance wise it sounds like it's working as intended.  It's a high tech ship with 6 large mounts and a ton of support weapons and fighters for the OP cost of just a bit less than two Paragons.  In addition it's main cannon can destroy entire fleets / turn the  tide of battle in a single shot if the situation is ideal.  But it's not invincible, not even close; if it gets surrounded it can get blown to pieces pretty fast.  This is the game balance I'm going for.

It also takes way too long to actually reach the battle (reduced 0-flux), which might already be lost by then since most of your DP is taken up by this single ship.

Most of the issues you point out can be overcome with S-mods and it turns the wurg into an absolute terror.  It's a lot of s-mods on a vanilla-ish play through but if you use something like the excellent Progressive S Mods it's not quite as bad.  Some people have shared their excellent wurg builds on the Discord, but they're pretty different than the base Wurg, but a lot of the fun in this game is figuring out the best way to equip a ship so the base Wurg is by design sub-optimal.

Requiring s-mods to make a super ship feel super seems kinda contrary to the whole idea, no? Recommending another mod to remedy this issue also seems kinda weird.

To your point about the operational cost, again this is gotten at the end-game where economic concerns are largely irrelevant to the player. 

It may be irrelevant in the form of cash, but not time. I still need to carry additional supplies that take additional space and require additional time to get and haul around. This doesn't feel good when the ship arguably doesn't justify the increased cost.

[BFEL]

Don't get me wrong, the balance of the ship itself is decent enough, in a vacuum. Since it's intended to be glass cannon-y for its weight class it's not unworkable.

The REAL problem I see is a comparative one. In terms of cost to obtain/maintain the Wurg is massively more expensive then other, modded, end-game "Super Ships", in particular "massive hull" ones with multiple parts.

As an example, the core of my current fleet is three "Cathedral Hubships" which iirc are from Ships/Weapons pack?
Anyway, these ships spawn in Luddic Church fleets, and can be restored like any other ship.
In terms of performance, I've made them all but invincible, each one can wipe entire Hegemony Kill-Fleets.
This is done by them having makeshift shield generators on each of the modules surrounding the "core" of the ship, which itself has a "normal" omni-shield.
This results in two layers of powerful shielding, on seperate flux pools, and on top of that those ships have good hull and armor values all around, as well as good weapon ouput.

Now these don't have the sheer damage output the Wurg does, but they are far more survivable.
This would all be perfectly fine.

But the Wurg requires a massive cost of rep or money, while those Cathedral ships only require you to be able to take one out and restore it.

This is just one example, and may well be one of the more egregious ones, but I know at least Scalartech has a similar "Dreadnought" type ship with its Gown class, and there are doubtless dozens of other mods with powerful ships of a similar scale.

My issue isn't that the Wurg is "useless", my problem is that it feels comparatively overpriced.
I get that balancing against other mods is a bit of a weird hill to die on, but the "price" of the Wurg has kinda turned me off of trying to find a use for it when there are other, similar options that don't feel like a punishment.

As I noted previously, failing the mission, "paying" the 1 million bounty and even a rep hit would all be fine, but -200 is WAY too severe. I suggest -20 to -50 for the rep hit. I later completed the mission without recovering the Wurg, and got a PLUS 200 boost to rep, which was ALSO insane.
Its perfectly fine to have the bounty mission and all that, and it can definitely make the ship feel more "earned", but the scale of things is just way off here.

[Nick XR]

Great feedback.  Here's what I'm currently thinking for changes:

• Lower minimum rep for mission to 90
• Rep Penalty/Bonus to 60
• More dangerous post battle kill fleet
• 10% more hull
• 5-10% more flux dissipation
• Remove Zero flux penalty
• Maintenance penalty 100%->50%

[BFEL]

That all sounds completely reasonable.

Now to crash a Newfoundland into it and lose everything