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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

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Author Topic: The Pilgrim's Path  (Read 7940 times)

Twilight Sentinel

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2022, 06:41:10 PM »

The PL would benefit immensely from having questlines and political dealings going on in it that the player can peek into and is impacted by over the course of the game.  I could see being able to side with different factions as part of that quest chain, in an effort to build up them into a more cohesive faction.  At the moment, it's a loose alliance that doesn't have much personality beyond their ships and weapons.

A questline that culminates in sorting out their worst elements and putting an end to slavery and authoritarianism, or institutionalizing them league wide would be a good fit for the faction.
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Brainwright

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2022, 10:17:37 PM »

Re. Space Pope: Right, yeah. My intent is for the Church's ruling body to be a sort of council, which... something will get into, at some point, probably.

Imagine believing you can have a council without a head, or that having one inhibits factionalism.  No one reads history anymore.  :(

I'm happy to see the factions fleshed out, and it'll be a nice comparison to the rest of the sector, since I believe there is a high degree of modification both cybernetic and genetic among the rest of the population, and not so much among the Luddites.

Though I do wish more about how the politics work got more detail.  It kinda sounds like the Persean Sector almost still operates as a polity under Domain law?  Maybe the courts operating in different star systems still use the same body of law, but interpret it differently?  Because while the Hegemony is fine as just an army, how a corporation exists without a government to define it boggles the mind (a corporation is literally a limited legal exemption from liability if you spend money how government tells you).
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Jackundor

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2022, 10:56:52 PM »

Mayasura is the one that got "colony dropped" not long before the game start, right?
no, that's Mairaath. And it was like ~120 years before the game start iirc. Before the League formed.
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Neldonax

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2022, 07:45:31 AM »

I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.
Their structures should be very basic, on habitable worlds their cities are made of stone and brick, on uninhabitables they're basic tubes and pipes, like current space tech.



Luddics have so much potential please do not *** this up so bad
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 07:58:00 AM by Neldonax »
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Igncom1

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2022, 09:22:31 AM »

Starsector luddites aren't real life luddites.
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smithney

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2022, 09:56:09 AM »

I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.
You know, as much as I would love that real life Churches led by example, I can't really say they have ever shied from "high elf" architecture when they could. I'd say the Luddics are fairly realistic.

EDIT: After a bit of googling, what you posted is actually a pretty high-tech piece of architecture for the time. You can see it's not just flaunting its opulence with multiple decorations, it's also pretty high-brow in its adherence to renaissance aesthetics, but that's to be expected from a building made for the then-ultrarich Venetian nobles (see the winged lion? that's a givevaway ;).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 10:21:18 AM by smithney »
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ForestFighters

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2022, 10:06:27 AM »

I mean, depending on the angle, the Notre Dame and other cathedrals can look pretty "high elven" and they didn't even have modern construction techniques. Some luddic sects may use basic stuff, but it is very much not a homogenous group.
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Igncom1

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2022, 10:16:02 AM »

They are still a modern antimatter using interstellar civilisation. Even if they aren't the biggest fan of the technology. Only the Path want to go back further then that, the church is more than fine to keep interstellar civilisation going.
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David

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2022, 01:59:45 PM »

For a person that usually doesn't care much about lore posts, this was very interesting. I really like where the game is going, having a world where each corner of the sector has a unique feel to it.

Well, thank you!

Oh, a quick question, David: Can the more overlooked Independent worlds like Eldfell or Cethlenn expect some uniquification identity upgrade, too? Being Independent is a downgrade in appeal by itself, but colonies like Nomios and Maxios manage to leverage the faction theme to feel peerlessly unique. Agreus got its little spotlight in the Gate campaing; can we expect more of these in the future?

Ah, answering is outside the scope of this blog post. (But, ahem, the logical conclusion of the approach thus far described is to emphasize unique interests of various underserved locations.)

Mayasura is the one that got "colony dropped" not long before the game start, right?

I want to say yes to troll everyone, but no.

Though I do wish more about how the politics work got more detail.  It kinda sounds like the Persean Sector almost still operates as a polity under Domain law?  Maybe the courts operating in different star systems still use the same body of law, but interpret it differently?  Because while the Hegemony is fine as just an army, how a corporation exists without a government to define it boggles the mind (a corporation is literally a limited legal exemption from liability if you spend money how government tells you).

Yeah, my model is (perhaps obviously) the post-Roman Empire. Everyone appeals to (or against) a formerly shared source of legitimacy (or illegitimacy) but is starting to drift in their own directions.

(What's a corporation whose 'parent' state has withered away? Maybe just another state with a peculiar theory of legitimacy and rights/responsibilities that probably resembles feudalism in some way? Just speculating off the cuff here; talking about Tri-Tachyon is, alas, outside the scope of what I want to get into here ... )

I dislike the high elf architecture, the luddics are meant to be highly pious and humble, not these extravagant high towers and ***.
...
Luddics have so much potential please do not *** this up so bad

Hi! Welcome to the forums.

While I think there is a compelling point at the core of your post, you've managed to botch it by coming off as a huge jerk in how you've said it. Please take a moment to review the forum rules, particularly the first rule. If you want to persuade people of anything through writing you are going to have to seriously re-think how you're expressing your thoughts here.

I'm feeling charitable today, so here's a reply: I think there's an argument to be made for the architectural style of "solarpunk-gothic", but I actually don't love that a lot of people immediately think "Rivendell", so... I'll think about how to better visually express what I'm going for.
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Brainwright

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2022, 04:21:12 PM »

(What's a corporation whose 'parent' state has withered away? Maybe just another state with a peculiar theory of legitimacy and rights/responsibilities that probably resembles feudalism in some way? Just speculating off the cuff here; talking about Tri-Tachyon is, alas, outside the scope of what I want to get into here ... )

Yeah, I got the notion of post-Roman Empire, but feudalism was largely a reform of the de facto slavery of the late Roman Empire.  It let local governments pay their operating costs without printing more money into the vastly inflated Roman currency.  Corporations are inherently usurious, their intention is to inflate the money supply.  Not a good comparison, to be honest.  Might be better to add a bank somewhere in the background that's printing money to continue old Domain economic policies, and the other factions are tolerating it because that continues the status quo.

I'm feeling charitable today, so here's a reply: I think there's an argument to be made for the architectural style of "solarpunk-gothic", but I actually don't love that a lot of people immediately think "Rivendell", so... I'll think about how to better visually express what I'm going for.

Quick question, how isn't the Luddic Church just like Rivendell?  I've heard estimates that the current population of Earth could be comfortably packed into an area the size of Texas.  So the faction that doesn't focus on industrialism for industrialism's sake would probably have a largely distributed population, and could comfortably fit populations of our size on a much smaller planet since there's, ya know, anti-matter power sources.

Though that's a rub in itself.  I imagine the biggest problem with anti-matter power is storing it.  Would you bury it a mile underground to prevent orbital bombardment from breaching containment?  I mean, you could explain player colonies by saying they built the anti-matter containment facilities, so they are effectively the law on whatever planet they are built on.  It's kind of a big deal that I don't think gets enough attention.
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David

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2022, 04:50:23 PM »

Might be better to add a bank somewhere in the background that's printing money to continue old Domain economic policies, and the other factions are tolerating it because that continues the status quo.

(Ooh, I was toying with the bank idea purely in my head a few years back. It was going to be called "The Human Trust" or something along those lines for maximum ironic set-ups, but it just kept coming back to being a bit too esoteric for this kind of game.

Similarly, what the heck is a "credit"? Fans have called it "space bitcoin", but... credits are actually useful and stable. I'm not answering anything at all besides "scifi money".)
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Brainwright

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2022, 08:03:43 PM »

(Ooh, I was toying with the bank idea purely in my head a few years back. It was going to be called "The Human Trust" or something along those lines for maximum ironic set-ups, but it just kept coming back to being a bit too esoteric for this kind of game.

If it doesn't have a set obtuse and secretive owners, is it really a corporation?

Similarly, what the heck is a "credit"? Fans have called it "space bitcoin", but... credits are actually useful and stable. I'm not answering anything at all besides "scifi money".)

Eh.  Bitcoin's only broken because no government is using it.  Slap down a delta core AI into every hyperspace relay, and you can have a centralized blockchain.
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Neldonax

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2022, 03:20:59 AM »

The Luddic church is an institution of immense piety compared to the rest of the sector, standard architecture in the sector is extravagant so it would make sense for the church to want more simplicity, especially a church *against* technology and extravagance. Their ships look simple, their outfits too, their structures should also be simple. The presence of God is only in places where the presence of Man is weak, extravagant churches go against that, frescos, statues, it all goes against that
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smithney

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2022, 04:19:24 AM »

The Luddic church is an institution of immense piety compared to the rest of the sector, standard architecture in the sector is extravagant so it would make sense for the church to want more simplicity, especially a church *against* technology and extravagance. Their ships look simple, their outfits too, their structures should also be simple. The presence of God is only in places where the presence of Man is weak, extravagant churches go against that, frescos, statues, it all goes against that
And I thought only SD gets unironic fanboys :D Care to roleplay an in-universe theological dispute? :^)

Jokes aside, I really like the direction religion is portrayed in this game. What at first seemed like basic representation and stereotypical fanatic baddies is turning into a nuanced portrait of religion with stories like the Pilgrim’s Path and characters like Livewell Cotton respectively ^^
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Candesce

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Re: The Pilgrim's Path
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2022, 05:04:54 AM »

Slap down a delta core AI into every hyperspace relay, and you can have a centralized blockchain.
If you've got a centralized authority anyway, there's no reason to use a blockchain instead of any of the many faster and more efficient databases. Just use a standard digital currency.
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