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Author Topic: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.  (Read 1076 times)

speeder

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Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« on: July 18, 2022, 04:31:20 PM »

I needed to move tons of cargo... so I go build a ton of atlas and... can only build 2. What? WHY??? The game says NOTHING about this!

So I go testing things, and find out you can build 2 "per hull" capital ships, 5 "per hull" cruisers, 10 for destroyers, 20 for frigates.

This is stupid and silly.

Assuming you have the money and the production capacity for it why you can't build a entire fleet if you need it? Why the limit is per hull anyway? why you can't build 4 Onslaughts but you can build 2 Onslaughts + 2 Paragons? Or worse... if you get multiple "skin" variants of a hull you can then go and build these. So... why? Just to be annoying?
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Kakroom

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2022, 04:50:10 PM »

I'm almost certain it's a balancing thing

All I can do is echo the sentiment that it's irritating
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Megas

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2022, 06:15:48 AM »

With multiple Orbital Works and Industrial Planning in my current game, my production limit is over 900k, and bumping into the limit gets annoying.
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speeder

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 12:51:49 PM »

But it doesn't really balance anything. All it does is prevent you from assembling a civilian fleet if you need it (since there aren't tons of Atlas or Promethes variants) or from making a fleet that makes sense (ie: if you judge you need 3 onslaughts, you can't do that, you need to use 2 onslaughts and an astral or something...)
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NoTalkofLowTech

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2022, 04:55:44 AM »

I mean logically it makes sense. This is a per month things right. So your building two capital class ships. Civilian aside, a month. More if you have multiple works. For reference the IRL equivalent typical takes six to ten months to complete. Warships take even longer, in the years. So give the yards a lot of lead time if you need something. Keep extra hulls lying around for when you need them. Don’t expect the post-apocalypse society to be able to replicate you a ship immediately.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2022, 07:04:55 AM »

I kind of agree with OP that the limit is a bit silly. You already have monthly production capacity which is supposed to represent the limit of your production facilities and function as the balance mechanism. Why is there a secondary limit which is hard coded when there is already a limit on the amount of stuff you can build?

If the production limit gets too high so that it is unbalanced, then change the production limit calculations IMO.
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Drazan

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2022, 11:36:28 AM »

I mean logically it makes sense. This is a per month things right. So your building two capital class ships. Civilian aside, a month. More if you have multiple works. For reference the IRL equivalent typical takes six to ten months to complete. Warships take even longer, in the years. So give the yards a lot of lead time if you need something. Keep extra hulls lying around for when you need them. Don’t expect the post-apocalypse society to be able to replicate you a ship immediately.

This would be logical, however you can still build 2 paragon AND 2 Onslaught in one month while you cannot build 4 Onslaughts. Also the limit is still there even if you have 40 orbital works.
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Megas

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2022, 02:13:56 PM »

Hulls are not the only thing limited.  Weapons are similarly limited too.  I have bumped into the limit with weapons more than hulls, although I have bumped into the hull limit once or twice.  (I think the limit for large-sized weapons is ten, more for smaller weapons.)

I have run into the weapon limit when I initially acquire obtain the railgun and burst PD blueprints.  The weapons are rare, but I use them liberally on my ships.  I have built about a hundred of railgun and burst PD each total.  I could not build them all at once.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 02:17:06 PM by Megas »
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NoTalkofLowTech

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2022, 07:23:30 PM »

I kind of agree with OP that the limit is a bit silly. You already have monthly production capacity which is supposed to represent the limit of your production facilities and function as the balance mechanism. Why is there a secondary limit which is hard coded when there is already a limit on the amount of stuff you can build?

If the production limit gets too high so that it is unbalanced, then change the production limit calculations IMO.

I mean if you have a heavy industry you’re only going to have so many ship berths available. Making it an orbital works would logically increase that, maybe more if there is also a military base, doubly for a high command. But having there be a limit is prudent imo. Just make it clearer that the limit exists.
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NoTalkofLowTech

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2022, 07:26:46 PM »

Interestingly, historically, weapons were one of the longest lead items when ordering and buildings a ship. It’s because the gun barrels for the turrets of larger ships took so long to make reliably, larger guns needed like a year lead to have the barrels needed ready.

Though keep in mind they weren’t just making the 8-12 barrels the ship needed initially, they were making them in batches of a few dozen to replace the barrels as they got worn out.

But this is all under the category of “logistics is a cruel mistress, and the true enemy when waging war.”
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2022, 09:52:45 PM »

I kind of agree with OP that the limit is a bit silly. You already have monthly production capacity which is supposed to represent the limit of your production facilities and function as the balance mechanism. Why is there a secondary limit which is hard coded when there is already a limit on the amount of stuff you can build?

If the production limit gets too high so that it is unbalanced, then change the production limit calculations IMO.

I mean if you have a heavy industry you’re only going to have so many ship berths available. Making it an orbital works would logically increase that, maybe more if there is also a military base, doubly for a high command. But having there be a limit is prudent imo. Just make it clearer that the limit exists.
When you build more heavy industries, the limit should go up then, but it doesn't.
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Plantissue

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2022, 11:52:23 AM »

Historically speaking it was gear drives that were the limiting factor in ship production, and still is today, as gearing is practically produced individualised for a ship class and not as easily open to mass production methods.

Reasons can always be found to fit game mechanics and I don't see the purpose of the game mechanic of the limit. As it is, it doesn't really affect any of the games I've ever played as I never have enough heavy industry.
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NoTalkofLowTech

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2022, 01:29:17 PM »

I kind of agree with OP that the limit is a bit silly. You already have monthly production capacity which is supposed to represent the limit of your production facilities and function as the balance mechanism. Why is there a secondary limit which is hard coded when there is already a limit on the amount of stuff you can build?

If the production limit gets too high so that it is unbalanced, then change the production limit calculations IMO.

I mean if you have a heavy industry you’re only going to have so many ship berths available. Making it an orbital works would logically increase that, maybe more if there is also a military base, doubly for a high command. But having there be a limit is prudent imo. Just make it clearer that the limit exists.
When you build more heavy industries, the limit should go up then, but it doesn't.

Yeah then that’s perfectly fair, it being dynamic based on number of heavy industries or orbital works would be interesting. Like 4/3/2/1 ship berths for heavy industry, twice that for orbital works, multiplied by 1.5 for a military base or 2 for a high command. Maybe something similar for weapons.
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NoTalkofLowTech

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2022, 01:30:45 PM »

Yeah machinery was, and still is as you said, another long lead item. Though that more determines when you can start construction because that stuff kinda has to go in, not first, but before a certain point.
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SCC

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Re: Please remove the "per hull" production limit.
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2022, 05:50:29 AM »

If ships need to have a minimal production time (as far as I am concerned, they don't need to), then do that, instead of putting a limit on how many items of a given class you can produce at a time.
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