Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

Author Topic: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)  (Read 6970 times)

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2022, 10:08:45 AM »

?? who complained pirate Eradicators were overtuned lol... That's like if base Falcon somehow got DP bumped up, so should the pirate one, or vice versa. Such situations only make sense when the dev changes the stats of such ships so they affect the skin as well.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

smithney

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
  • Internetian pleb
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2022, 10:10:04 AM »

Without AAF, the pirate version really isn’t a huge threat. It can pursue with Burn Drive but it’s not nearly as efficient nor can it punch up. It’s a good bully against Destroyers, and legit better than a Falcon, but I don’t think it needs any change in DP. Or should I say, just because the standard gets bumped up doesn’t necessarily mean the pirate one needs to. There was a 3 DP gap before, now there’s 5. 1 DP either way doesn’t really matter to me: we’re just splitting hairs.
Indeed, Pirate Eradicator isn't as much of a threat than it is a threat enabler. I would disagree with the efficiency part: back it with a glass cannon and watch the kill count rise. P-radicator is fast enough to keep pace with the overgunned destroyers Pirates field, but I found out it pairs with Heron even better, making for a fast and versatile task force stopped only by endgame threats.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2022, 05:39:38 AM »

?? who complained pirate Eradicators were overtuned lol...
I think standard Eradicator is fine as-is, even if it is a bit strong, but I do not mind it getting a 2 DP raise.  But if it gets a DP raise, so should the pirate one, but not as much.  Even though pirate Eradicator does not have AAF, it still has excellent mounts for focusing a bunch of guns and missiles at whatever it wants to kill.  Pirate Eradicator is strong (offensively) for its DP too, and it is good enough to kill (weak) Eagle or two destroyers.  It does not kill as quickly as standard Eradicator but still gets the job done.
Logged

StrikeEcho

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2022, 08:08:25 AM »

I want the Pirate Eradicator bump to 18 DP simply because I'm OCD and want nice round even numbers.

Also the Eradicator is good where it's at, a 2 DP bump does help in clarifying where it's supposed to be relative to the other Crusisers.
Logged

Plantissue

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1231
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2022, 12:52:58 PM »

I don't see why should the DP cost of the Pirate Eradicator be bumped up, if the DP cost of the Normal Eradicator is bumped up. If Normal Eradicator is worth 22 instead of 20, and Pirate Eradicator is worth 17, then what's the point of bumping pirate Eradicator to 18 simply because Normal Eradictors cost has been bumped? They are essentially two different ships with two different worthiness. Reflecting ones' worthiness in DP does not change the other.

17 is uncomfortable to see though. Perhaps we can have more ships with prime numbers to make us more comfortable. 37 DP battlecruiser anyone?
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2022, 01:05:26 PM »

Because pirate Eradicator is borderline overpowered at 17 DP the same way normal Eradicator is at 20 DP, for the same reasons (of powerful, easy-to-use turreted ballistic firepower).  If normal Eradicator gets a DP raise because 20 is too cheap, then 17 is also too cheap for pirate Eradicator.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2022, 01:14:43 PM »

Because pirate Eradicator is borderline overpowered at 17 DP the same way normal Eradicator is at 20 DP, for the same reasons (of powerful, easy-to-use turreted ballistic firepower).  If normal Eradicator gets a DP raise because 20 is too cheap, then 17 is also too cheap for pirate Eradicator.
You keep making that argument but repeating it ad nauseam won't make it make sense all of a sudden. Everyone and their mother and their mother's mother knows the Eradicator is strong because of the AAF system. Ship without that firepower potential is in fact, a different ship. 17 DP is fine, trust me I'm a ship doctor.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2022, 02:08:55 PM »

Everyone and their mother and their mother's mother knows the Eradicator is strong because of the AAF system. Ship without that firepower potential is in fact, a different ship. 17 DP is fine, trust me I'm a ship doctor.
It is different only in that standard kills things faster with its system.  Otherwise, they still have the same stats.

Yes, AFF makes standard stronger than pirate, but having six or seven elite small or medium ballistics shooting up stuff at a cruiser range (plus swivel unlike cruisers with hardpoints) is quite strong too.  It is not merely AAF that makes standard Eradicator strong, but also the mounts it has, and pirate Eradicator has those same mounts and stats.  Only the system is different.  Pirate Eradicator can kill at least its weight in ships (likely more).  17 DP is only fine if standard stays at 20.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7174
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2022, 03:23:58 PM »

IIRC when you include duty cycle AAF comes out to a ~35% increase in total firepower, which is flux free and concentrated at the start of an engagement in most cases. Burn drive has some value for fast hunter cruisers, but the effective flux/firepower advantage is significant.
Logged

FooF

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2022, 04:48:06 PM »

IIRC when you include duty cycle AAF comes out to a ~35% increase in total firepower, which is flux free and concentrated at the start of an engagement in most cases. Burn drive has some value for fast hunter cruisers, but the effective flux/firepower advantage is significant.

Right. The fact that it can be used to start the engagement means that a roughly equivalent ship begins on its back foot and never really recovers. The effect this has on the AI is substantial, so much so that it can mean the difference between squeaking out a win (Pirate Eradicator) and not taking any damage at all (standard).

If AAF is considered ~30% boost in DPS, then the standard Eradicator should be about 30% more expensive to field than the Pirate version. Unsurprisingly, this is 22 relative to 17. That's a bit of an oversimplification, of course, but Burn Drive doesn't have the same battlefield impact as AAF by a large margin, in my opinion, at least not on a ship with 70 base speed. You could make an argument that AAF on a Dominator wouldn't necessarily be "better" (I still think it might be) but the Dominator's slow base speed necessitates Burn Drive a lot more than the Eradicator does.
Logged

BigBrainEnergy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2022, 05:29:01 PM »

Maybe nerf the logistical side of it? We could bring it down to burn 8 instead of burn 9.
Logged
TL;DR deez nuts

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7174
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2022, 05:38:26 PM »

Pirate being 9 to the regulars 8 (because the burn drive makes it faster? I dunno) would be in line with Falcon P's being higher burn, and if effectively one version of the hull is "lighter" then it makes some sense.
Logged

BigBrainEnergy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2022, 06:08:28 PM »

To be more consistent with the falcon variants the p-radicator would probably get ADF for free, which would make perfect sense given they've already modified the engines.
Logged
TL;DR deez nuts

Dri

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2022, 12:29:46 AM »

OP has been around here long enough to know he shouldn't talk about nerfs. When Alex nerfs, he OVERnerfs hard. Shhhh.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2022, 12:38:53 AM »

That's what I did previously, but still a big number of players complained and now we have several gutted ships. I don't mind the nerfs if they're justified, but precisely because of overnerfing, I wanted to talk about the potential target so that is receives a mild nerf IF IT HAPPENS. So keeping quiet could lead to a Drover incident and I don't want that.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6