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[Grievous69]

I'll start off by saying I really don't think it needs a nerf, even though there seems to be a lot of people thinking it's a problem. The thing is, it's just a simple ballistic ship with AAF, there's not much AI can screw up with, and building a decent loadout for it is very straight forward. Easiest comparison is Hammerhead, very reliable ship that's always going to be doing something useful. It might seem overtuned at first if you look at closest competitors, such as Fury or Eagle, but those are a different topic. There's Apogee, Champion, 20 DP carriers, hell even Atlas MkII. And all of those are competitive with Eradicator when you adjust DPs. So you could argue that the ship is too easy (as in you can't really go wrong with it), but that doesn't mean we should gut it and make it undertuned. There's been way too much examples of ships being potent > community keeps repeating it's too strong > gets nerfed > no one touches it for 2-3 patches when it gets buffed again to pretty much the same level it was originally.

So if Alex caves in to such demands, the only thing I could see is dropping the top speed by 5 su, and maybe touching the flux capacity a bit. I really don't know what would you do with it to not make it trash tier very quickly. The stats of the ship aren't even anything to write home about, it's literally only the AAF justifying the 20 DP cost.

[Amoebka]

I don't really think it's the ship. Officer skills are disproportionately good for low-tech. Ordinance Expertise in particular is giga-busted, because it completely alleviates the flux issues low-tech ships are supposed to have. So you get your long-ranged ultra-efficient ballistic weapons, and then you also get the flux to fire 6 of them at once, too.

Without an officer, Eradicator is what I expect from a 20 DP cruiser. Don't nerf the ship, make the skills less biased towards low-tech. All the forum whining has really swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

[Grievous69]

You're absolutely right, totally forgot about that component. Actually there was a discussion in another thread talking about ballistic mastery versus energy mastery. One gives you benefits active all the time, without any rules, and then you have energy weapon mastery that can literally have zero effect if your ship has ITU or is just a bit slower. So either makes both skills useful in most situations, or idk just replace them with something else.

Ordnance expertise is another culprit that is hard to discuss. Let's face it, the skill makes for wild and fun loadouts, I think it would be a shame to get rid of it. And yeah it's another case where it favour low tech more, which have initial low stats that get flat buffs just for putting on guns (and they have tons of mounts usually). So what if the bonus was a percentage? Hopefully that wouldn't break things too much.

[smithney]

Eradicator felt unproportionally strong for its role even compared to other lo-tech hulls during my latest run. It was tanky enough to double as a line ship, had enough firepower to threaten bigger ships, swift enough to hunt weakened foes and pull out reliably from overextending. I didn't even use them to their full potential: I just picked up a couple Pirate ones and equipped them with a slight alteration of one of the stock loadouts. I only replaced them with capitals once I started needing a tankier frontline for the endgame.

I can't tell if Eradicator's out of line by itself, or if it just benefited from the skill changes disproportionately. It nonetheless felt unparalleled in its main role (frontline cruiser) and formidable in other roles (line ship, strike ship). If I were to put it in its place, I would nerf its defenses so it wouldn't go unpunished for overextending. I would definitely keep its overwhelming firepower, there's a niche for it and it's the reason why Eradicator is so threatening and fun on both sides of the battlefield. I also really hope it won't get overnerfed, if only for the flavor of a Domain underdog finally becoming appreciated and ubiquitous post-Collapse.

[Grievous69]

By defenses do you mean armour/hull or shields? Guess it could be a cool thing that one low tech ship doesn't have 1.0 effectiveness, but 1.1 or so.

[Salter]

Eradicator already feels pretty bulky and slow. About the only change you could make to it that would dent it would probably be the armor. everything else feels pretty alright about it.

[temporal45678]

No, i'd say the eradicator is decent/good but not optimal because in this patch fighters are king and for the price of an eradicator, you could either bring a mora to your fleet (which i haven't tested, but i'm sure beats the eradicator 1 vs 1 if AI controlled) or 2 frigates and an enforcer which adds more value to your fleet (and saves you a couple more DP depending on which frigates you decide to bring)

[Grievous69]

2 replies in a row and I see comments how the Eradicator feels slow and that fighters are currently king. Ahh feels like I'm back on Reddit again.

Of the serious replies, I'm not sure if you could nerf the armour and not cripple the ship, Eradicator is really not tanky for low tech (yes I know it's fast). With every passing moment, I think the 1.1 shield nerf feels like the most logical POTENTIAL nerf.

[Megas]

Eradicator seems okay.  It is stronger than Eagle, but Eagle is weak.  I guess Eradicator could be bumped by 2 DP if Eagle gets nothing aside from a new beam weapon (that may or may not help).  Gryphon is stronger, but I suspect it will be nerfed somehow.

Ordnance expertise is another culprit that is hard to discuss. Let's face it, the skill makes for wild and fun loadouts, I think it would be a shame to get rid of it. And yeah it's another case where it favour low tech more, which have initial low stats that get flat buffs just for putting on guns (and they have tons of mounts usually). So what if the bonus was a percentage? Hopefully that wouldn't break things too much.

It also makes Industry worth it, especially when I want to get high-tier QoL Industry skills.  If all Industry has is campaign/QoL skills, then Industry will be dumped by most, and the few who take it will be deemed to be playing the game wrong.

Ordnance Expertise benefits everyone.  High-tech ships have dissipation problems too, and unlike low-tech, they do not have cheap but effective weapons like light autocannons and light mortar.

Gunnery Implants in Technology is similarly powerful.  Instead of dissipation, it is shot range (very important) and recoil (very important for some ballistics).

[Alex]

Interesting thread (this and the Fury one); keeping an eye on both!

(One new point for cruiser balance, btw: in the dev version of the game, the Eagle now costs 20 dp.)

[FooF]

“The DP of Cruisers shall be 20. No more. No less. 20 shall the DP be. The number shall be 20. 19 shall not be the DP unless immediately followed by 20. 22 is right out!” - The Holy Antimatter Torpedo of Gilead.

For the Eradicator, the only thing I would touch is the shield efficiency. Make it take more armor hits, which it still has pretty good armor.

[Alex]

“The DP of Cruisers shall be 20. No more. No less. 20 shall the DP be. The number shall be 20. 19 shall not be the DP unless immediately followed by 20. 22 is right out!” - The Holy Antimatter Torpedo of Gilead.

(Haha, right??? ... I was actually thinking that it might make sense to bump the Eradicator to 22, though.)

[FooF]

22 sounds about right if no stat adjustments. It’s not on par with the Dominator in a slugfest or the Champion as a line ship. Is this for both the standard and pirate versions?

[Alex]

Just the standard. The pirate one is 17 right now iirc, but burn drive makes it very much its own thing. It could well be under-costed at 17, though, but to be honest I haven't thought too much about it.

[Amoebka]

Ordnance Expertise benefits everyone.  High-tech ships have dissipation problems too, and unlike low-tech, they do not have cheap but effective weapons like light autocannons and light mortar.

High-tech ships also don't have weapon mounts and OP to take advantage of Ordinance Expertise. And the flat bonus ends up a lot less significant for them since their weapons are balanced around premium flux stats to begin with. Eradicator gets ~180 bonus dissipation (+45%) with an average build. That's an entire medium ballistic weapon. Fury gets ~100 bonus dissipation (+16%), which is less than one IR pulse laser.
Now, high-tech ships arguably benefit more from the elite part of the skill, thanks to the higher shield efficiency, but nobody really elites Ordinance Expertise unless it's a cryopod level 7 or something. And slightly better shield is a lot less valuable than an entire extra weapon.