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Author Topic: What do you think the game needs before release?  (Read 4859 times)

Salter

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2022, 10:40:32 AM »

Honestly when it comes to skills, I wish they brought Strike Commander back and rolled ballistic mastery & energy weapon mastery into weapon mastery. It would fit neatly into the tech tree cause Gunnery Implants is also a range skill as well and it would give carrier fleets a dedicated combat skill for them again.
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Grievous69

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2022, 11:31:15 AM »

Honestly when it comes to skills, I wish they brought Strike Commander back and rolled ballistic mastery & energy weapon mastery into weapon mastery. It would fit neatly into the tech tree cause Gunnery Implants is also a range skill as well and it would give carrier fleets a dedicated combat skill for them again.
This is actually a 200IQ plan to buff the Eagle :O
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Amoebka

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2022, 11:36:49 AM »

Yeah, having separate weapon masteries is pretty strange, when shield and phase skills got merged (and carrier skills removed) precisely to prevent locking officers to specific ships.
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Tadas

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2022, 11:37:53 AM »

Quote
'm gonna be selfish and defend the current skill tree because it keeps my playstyle viable

Hey, I am with you, I play same way quite a bit, but on harder battles I would like to have more agency and not feel that I am making my fleet worse in other ways. I think I might be falling into "optimizing the fun out of the game" trap, but here I am. However I don't think it's either/or binary. For example if instead of 8 pilots we would get 7 and either use avatar as a strong autopilot or pilot yourself, well.. the game balance wouldn't be 1:1 exactly like it is now, but it wouldn't be very far off either.

As far as "ai debuff", I don't know.. I think I am average player, but I don't feel that I play that much better than AI, I get more kills, but I also die more, I can't use directional shield quite as well as AI can and AI tend to shoot "dumb" missiles at longer distances better than I do etc. I can do some things better than AI does, but I am not convinced that me taking a single ship buff is as good as the rest of the fleet losing a buff.
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Grievous69

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2022, 11:51:23 AM »

And as someone who always gets at least 5 combat skills, I'm also fine with the current system. Alex has suffered enough *prayer emoji*
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Tadas

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2022, 11:52:20 AM »

Can you share your typical build?
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Amoebka

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2022, 11:53:03 AM »

I only take 5 combat because there aren't enough good fleet skills to spend all 15 levels on. One extra officer (player) is worth more than the entire industry tree combined.
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Tadas

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2022, 11:57:38 AM »

Eh I would largely agree with you, but I feel that hull restoration is kind of must have on ironman at least until money is not an issue, but at that point I am at end game having played most of the game without combat line skills.
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Grievous69

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2022, 12:04:28 PM »

Can you share your typical build?
Tomorrow, don't have access to my pc now.
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Thaago

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2022, 12:21:11 PM »

I only take 5 combat because there aren't enough good fleet skills to spend all 15 levels on. One extra officer (player) is worth more than the entire industry tree combined.

I often don't take industry, but it has some combat upsides even if it enforces taking 2 money/qol skills:
For combat skills, Ordinance Expertise is very strong (I'd say the strongest individual skill) and polarized armor is a good one heavy armor ships. For lategame builds, best of the best + hull restoration allows 100% CR without combat endurance, effectively giving the player and all officers an extra skill point (if not caring about the PPT, which most ships do not need more of). Derelict Operations + Support Doctrine is the spam build, allowing for a huge DP cost reduction.

One of the QOL picks, Field repairs, has some upsides for combat as well: its good for chain battling and for saving supplies from fighting; off the top of my head I don't remember if the increased repair rate corresponds to an increase in supply consumption while repairs are ongoing, but the free repairs make it so that more battle damage falls into the "free" range. Also 30-40% CR and hull on recovery is 30-40% less supplies spent on ship loss. Combined with hull restoration it basically redefines what it means to "win" a fight: even heavy losses don't impact the bottom line very much.
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Tadas

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2022, 12:45:35 PM »

The thing I like most about hull restoration is that it allows playing squishier ships guilt free. Previous patch I used to play mostly capital ships and fights would play out very slowly often just grinding down enemy CR.
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Salter

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2022, 01:08:24 PM »

I usually go tech if I want to wolfpack or fleet skills if I run carriers with combat skills mixed in. I rarely go for industry either. Their tier 4 perks are very nice and dealing with logistical issues like supplies and recovery is very nice, but some skills are hit & miss. Derelict Operations only works if you plan to spam a bunch of ships, which you only get 30 of unless you mess with the game files anyways and industrial planning only matters if you plan to min-max your colony commodities. I like containment procedures & makeshift equipment but individually the skills feel too weak to take unless you wanna run more combat ships and less logi ships. Salvaging feels like it should do more, as extra goods is nice but its not game changing.

Now that I think about it, going a full industry build is the choice between if you want nice ships or alot of junky warships.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 01:13:17 PM by Salter »
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2022, 01:30:10 PM »

Now that I think about it, going a full industry build is the choice between if you want nice ships or alot of junky warships.
Yup, both the top tier skills are designed to mitigate the costs of d-mods, just in opposite ways. You either embrace them and spam junk ships, or you get them polished off for free and get a little extra CR. If anything I'd like to see hull restoration be a little stronger, maybe 10% CR per s-mod instead of 5% or something. Or maybe keep it at 5% but give ships an extra 10% ppt for each s-mod.
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Aramoro

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2022, 02:01:33 PM »

What do u think of commander classes?

Fleet commander/Governor/Space Pirate?
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Megas

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Re: What do you think the game needs before release?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2022, 02:28:18 PM »

I consider Ordnance Expert up there with Gunnery Implants, at least for the flagship.  I always want to take at least Tech 2 and Industry 2 just for those two skills (plus Navigation for burn speed and early T-Jump).  Elite Polarized Armor is also nice for flagships that want to vent spam, although the normal effect is good for armor tanking (and required for ships that have no shields).

For me, if I want Combat and Leadership 5, I need to decide whether to take the third skill in either Tech (Flux Regulations) or Industry (Polarized Armor).  I guess it can go into sixth skill in Combat or Leadership instead.

For lategame builds, best of the best + hull restoration allows 100% CR without combat endurance, effectively giving the player and all officers an extra skill point (if not caring about the PPT, which most ships do not need more of).
Also good for alpha core Radiant, who only starts with 20% max CR.  Combat Endurance alone only raises it to 35%, which is not enough to get it out of the yellow.  When player can stack both Hull Restoration and Crew Training, he can get up to 30% (more likely 25%) more to raise that 35% max CR to 60+%.

One of the QOL picks, Field repairs, has some upsides for combat as well: its good for chain battling and for saving supplies from fighting; off the top of my head I don't remember if the increased repair rate corresponds to an increase in supply consumption while repairs are ongoing, but the free repairs make it so that more battle damage falls into the "free" range. Also 30-40% CR and hull on recovery is 30-40% less supplies spent on ship loss. Combined with hull restoration it basically redefines what it means to "win" a fight: even heavy losses don't impact the bottom line very much.
Field Repairs also works in multi-round combat within the same encounter.  If you take damage and retreat, you get your free repairs before player can start round two (or disengage and end the encounter).

The thing I like most about hull restoration is that it allows playing squishier ships guilt free. Previous patch I used to play mostly capital ships and fights would play out very slowly often just grinding down enemy CR.
What I like most about Hull Restoration is I can lose about half my fleet or more and all of my ships have a not insignificant chance of getting recovered without any d-mods.  It also makes getting pristine ships from the enemy feasible (especially Vanguards).  Great when I want to loot automated ships since they cannot be bought or built.

In previous releases, if I lost a ship, it was an immediate reload.  Hull Restoration has mostly eliminated the need to reload the moment one of my ships died.  I have a grand intolerance for d-mods of any kind in my fleet.  If I had a favorite skill in the game, it is Hull Restoration, and it is probably the sixth skill I get.  (My progression in of my 0.95 games were Navigation, Field Repairs, Ordnance Expert, Polarized Armor, Industrial Planning, and Hull Restoration.)

That said, if not for the extra max CR, Hull Restoration would not be so great if player has money to replace lost ships or if the fleet is lone flagship (Ziggurat) and losing it is a fleet wipe.  As it is, it is like spending two points on Crew Training (going from Polarized Armor to Hull Restoration) instead of one (getting just Crew Training).
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