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Author Topic: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.6  (Read 300166 times)

Liral

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1095 on: March 01, 2024, 07:37:24 PM »

I haven't played this mod in forever, decided to load it up and try it again, when I lock on to a target the range of my weapons drop to a very short range, and when I unlock a target they stay really short. I had several mods on at first, but Ive tested with all the mods off and I'm still getting this issue. I was using Auto cannons and Light machine guns. I had to be almost touching the enemy ship in order to be in range. The guns did not wanna fire within the given arcs either unless super close as well.


https://i.imgur.com/BHQQ3uB.png

https://i.imgur.com/iWZlBvD.png

That's the ThreeDimensionalTargeting feature rather than a bug.  Lock your target, aim in the indicator, and fire.

I ran into a compatibility bug that I can't easily troubleshoot because you need to be mid-late game before running into it: Infinite Space Station Flux.
It doesn't happen with every station so that makes the problem even harder to narrow down.
Mod list is as follows:
 Ashes of the Domain - The Sleeper 1.2.1
 Ashes of the Domain - Virtue of Society 1.0.8
 Ashes of the Domain - Vaults of Knowledge 2.0.12
 Arma Armatura 3.0.3
 Combat Activators 1.3.0
 Combat Chatterer 1.14.1
 Detailed Combat Results 5.4.0
 Domain Explorarium Expansion 0.0.16
 ED Shipyards 2.6.5
 Emergent Threats 0.5.1
 Emergent Threats: IX Revival 0.5.1
 Fleet Journal 1.1.1
 Hazard Mining Incorporated 0.3.7b
 Indies Expansion Pack 0.6
 Industrial.Evolution 3.3.e
 Interstellar Imperium 2.6.4
 LOST_SECTOR 0.6.1d
 Larger Zoom Out 1.1.1
 LazyLib 2.8b
 LunaLib 1.8.4
 MagicLib 1.3.11
 More Military Missions 0.4.2
 Nexerelin 0.11.1b
 Random Assortment of Things 2.0.8-Part1
 Realistic Combat 2.0.4
 Ship/Weapon Pack 1.15.1
 SpeedUp 1.0.1
 Starship Legends 2.5.1
 Underworld 1.8.3
 zz GraphicsLib 1.9.0

To my knowledge none of the other mods have anything to do with Station Combat Statistics nor shields otherwise I'd have bit the bullet and done mod Jenga for the next few days and posted which one was conflicting here. As much as I enjoy the mod for its' extended combat range I'll have to be deactivating it for now because getting rid of a faction and its' ships is one thing but I can't be fighting nigh invincible space stations.

Uh-oh.

Having run into both the infinite station flux bug, and the "sometimes ships don't die when they hit 0 hull" bug, I think I've narrowed it down to incompatibility between this mod and Arma Armatura. This doesn't particularly surprise me, as AA does some real *** to work, and I don't think Realistic Combat likes other people doing *** when it already does ***.

Please elaborate because I could test to find the problem.  Regardless I'll add it to the bug list.

By any chance can I only have the:
-Big map(huge)
-weapon range long(but not that long)
-ships that drift
but without
-weapons dont fire (cause moded)
Using setting in the mod file.

Go to Toggles.json and disable ThreeDimensionalTargeting.  Would you care to elaborate why you want to disable the feature?

Matheld

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1096 on: March 02, 2024, 04:53:25 AM »

To be fair, the targeting reticule can be so small as to only be the size of a small red circle, and trying to keep track of that whilst manoeuvring your ship, especially with the fluctuating range calculation, it's difficult to even notice if your guns are actually firing or not. Because by the time you glance back at your guns.. your cursor has probably drifted out of the red circle.

Sometimes you also kind of just want to eyeball the shots yourself, you know, shoot from the hip? So making it so you can only shoot at ships if your cursor is in the targeting reticule, and have the ship within the (sometimes very) small targeting range.. can feel... Annoying? Un-intuitive? (... Sometimes you also kind of just want to shoot at the asteroids and ship wreck floating in space around you, target practice!)

This can be particularly annoying for fighting smaller ships, since the range calculation and reticule can change so rapidly as the smaller ship is making manoeuvres that.. it becomes pretty much impossible to shoot yourself, without turning on autofiring. Being able to just eyeball without restrictions means you could just fill a volume of space infront of the path of the manoeuvring ship and still hope to hit, since you're just making a guess that that is where the ship will be once your shots reach their destination.

You can also see the issue of "Suddenly very short range" for the weapon arcs for like.. PD guns, when they're trying to shoot down missiles and fighters. The range becomes so short when the PD starts to target missiles/fighters, that the guns only start to actually acquire the target and shoot them down when they're like 3/4ths through the total range of the PD. IE, danger close. Which also means that sometimes your PD won't even shoot at fighters and missiles cause it just can't acquire the target, since they're too fast for tracking, and instead is fixated on shooting at a nearby frigate or larger since it can actually target those.
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LAJ-47FC9

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1097 on: March 02, 2024, 03:24:55 PM »

Having run into both the infinite station flux bug, and the "sometimes ships don't die when they hit 0 hull" bug, I think I've narrowed it down to incompatibility between this mod and Arma Armatura. This doesn't particularly surprise me, as AA does some real *** to work, and I don't think Realistic Combat likes other people doing *** when it already does ***.

Please elaborate because I could test to find the problem.  Regardless I'll add it to the bug list.
Cross-referencing my modlist with other affected folks, subtracting those that I'm confident work without huge problems, Arma Armatura is the only commonality, and removing Arma Armatura solved those issues quickly. Anything else I can offer?
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Liral

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1098 on: March 03, 2024, 12:18:25 AM »

To be fair, the targeting reticule can be so small as to only be the size of a small red circle, and trying to keep track of that whilst manoeuvring your ship, especially with the fluctuating range calculation, it's difficult to even notice if your guns are actually firing or not. Because by the time you glance back at your guns.. your cursor has probably drifted out of the red circle.

I appreciate this long write-up and would like to correspond with you more.  An indication guns are firing would help the player understand whether they are.

Quote
Sometimes you also kind of just want to eyeball the shots yourself, you know, shoot from the hip? So making it so you can only shoot at ships if your cursor is in the targeting reticule, and have the ship within the (sometimes very) small targeting range.. can feel... Annoying? Un-intuitive? (... Sometimes you also kind of just want to shoot at the asteroids and ship wreck floating in space around you, target practice!)

Automatically holding fire until you're on target prevents you from firing shots that the target could dodge by moving in three dimensions.  I understand that thinking in 2D is natural because Starsector is 2D, but in 3D, shots would not be possible.

Quote
This can be particularly annoying for fighting smaller ships, since the range calculation and reticule can change so rapidly as the smaller ship is making manoeuvres that.. it becomes pretty much impossible to shoot yourself, without turning on autofiring.

Yeah, that's something I can't fix because the feature is working as intended.

Quote
Being able to just eyeball without restrictions means you could just fill a volume of space infront of the path of the manoeuvring ship and still hope to hit, since you're just making a guess that that is where the ship will be once your shots reach their destination.

I added Three Dimensional Targeting to preclude exactly that tactic because targets realistically could dodge in all three dimensions rather than in only two.

Quote
You can also see the issue of "Suddenly very short range" for the weapon arcs for like.. PD guns, when they're trying to shoot down missiles and fighters. The range becomes so short when the PD starts to target missiles/fighters, that the guns only start to actually acquire the target and shoot them down when they're like 3/4ths through the total range of the PD. IE, danger close. Which also means that sometimes your PD won't even shoot at fighters and missiles cause it just can't acquire the target, since they're too fast for tracking, and instead is fixated on shooting at a nearby frigate or larger since it can actually target those.

PD isn't targeting missiles?  That's not good.  Can you reproduce this bug?

Cross-referencing my modlist with other affected folks, subtracting those that I'm confident work without huge problems, Arma Armatura is the only commonality, and removing Arma Armatura solved those issues quickly. Anything else I can offer?

Thanks for your cooperation.  Yes!  If you can reproduce the steps that lead to the behavior, then I could try to reproduce and study them.  First, does it happen every time?  Does every station have infinite flux, or only certain kinds of station?  Do all kinds of ships not explode when at 0 health, or do only certain kids?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 10:57:24 AM by Liral »
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LAJ-47FC9

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1099 on: March 03, 2024, 01:06:11 AM »

Cross-referencing my modlist with other affected folks, subtracting those that I'm confident work without huge problems, Arma Armatura is the only commonality, and removing Arma Armatura solved those issues quickly. Anything else I can offer?

Thanks for your cooperation.  Yes!  If you can reproduce the steps that lead to the behavior, then I could try to reproduce and study them.  First, does it happen every time?  Does every station have infinite flux, or only certain kinds of station?  Do all kinds of ships not explode when at 0 health, or do only certain kids?
Happy to help! ^-^
Steps are pretty simple. Install AA, install Realistic Combat, get yourself an AA-enabled ship, and go. Not every station suffers it, and I'm not sure there's any particular consistency with affected ships - beyond ships that have already been affected continuing to be affected until they despawn (for AI) or you repair at a station (for player fleet). I'll see if I can do some info gathering tomorrow, however. The invincible ship bug should appear pretty quickly, at least - I saw multiple instances in a single battle. I'm wondering if their health is somehow underflowing...
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Matheld

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1100 on: March 03, 2024, 07:32:21 AM »

You know what? That is entirely fair, and to be clear, it was more of an observation rather than a criticism or complaint! I do like the way the mod handles itself.

Quote
Quote
You can also see the issue of "Suddenly very short range" for the weapon arcs for like.. PD guns, when they're trying to shoot down missiles and fighters. The range becomes so short when the PD starts to target missiles/fighters, that the guns only start to actually acquire the target and shoot them down when they're like 3/4ths through the total range of the PD. IE, danger close. Which also means that sometimes your PD won't even shoot at fighters and missiles cause it just can't acquire the target, since they're too fast for tracking, and instead is fixated on shooting at a nearby frigate or larger since it can actually target those.

PD isn't targeting missiles?  That's not good.  Can you reproduce this bug?

And this is less of a bug that I've noticed. More of a behaviour of the Ballistic PD in the heat of battle. I can try to look out for it more but.. I wouldn't know what is causing it or how to check it up.
But it's like.. When you are in close enough range with a ship, IE you're brawling with it, whether its a frigate, destroyer, cruiser or capital. The PD has this behaviour to shoot at the ship as well, which is all well and good. This is with or without integrated point Defense AI hullmod.

It's just that, given the before mentioned behaviour of the PD only really shooting at missiles/fighters when they are very close to the ship, it almost feels like the PD will kind of just.. not bother to shoot at the missiles/fighters? and instead continue to shoot at the more easy to hit target, being the opposing ship (frigate, destroyer, cruiser, capital) and completely ignoring Fighters circling the ship or missiles heading straight for your ship until it's pretty much too late to change target.

A solution I can think of would be for the PD to at the very least start to track missiles and fighters once they enter the maximum potential range of the PD even if they don't actually engage the missiles/fighters until it has a solution that will hit.

Think of it like.. This youtube clip of a Phalanx tracking a civilian airliner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jselGCqu458

As for Energy Beam PD I can't say much, aside from the fact that it is sometimes TOO GOOD and keep shooting down my UAF nukes  >:( :P

Overall though, Beam PD seems to be far superior to Ballistic PD, which does make logical sense since the beam PD isn't limited to range as much as ballistic PD is. And it has a much faster target acquisition it seems.
And once the ADHD Ballistic PD actually has a solution and aren't hyper-focusing on a frigate, it can be very beautiful to see the explosions all around your ship as fighters and missiles gets shot down.

Edit: A secondary solution for Ballistic PD would be for it to technically kind of ignore the 3d targeting rules? Because ballistic PD, such as CIWS in modern days, work on the basis of "Accuracy through volume of fire". IE, Throw enough metal towards the target so that even if it isn't 100% accurate (Be that through ECCM, quirks in the design), you will still shred the target because you turned the air into mostly metal.

So I understand your logic and argument for the 3d targeting, and how crafts can dodge up or down to avoid being hit. But like seen in Battlestar Galactica, for example. Being able to just fill the volume in front of you with enough flying metal, be that from Flak, CIWS or a trusty belt fed machine gun, is quite an effective way to protect against Missiles and Fighters.

Spoiler
[close]

I drew an example to clarify what I mean.

All in all, it isn't exactly a bug. Just a funny behaviour with how the PD follows the set rules, and kind of.. underperforming? because of it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 03:12:54 PM by Matheld »
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Helldiver

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1101 on: March 03, 2024, 08:19:19 AM »

I think that projectile PD "bug" might be due to the vanilla mechanic of weapons gaining a traverse rate bonus when not firing. The way RC's 3D targeting prevents guns from firing without target lock makes the guns behave as if they were in a permanent charge-up state if firing when not possible (even if they don't have a charge time by default), so their traverse rate bonus is often behaving weirdly and turrets often turn much slower, making projectile PD stop trying hit to certain fast targets.

In my weapon rework, I've removed the "turn rate boost when idle" from all weapons (thankfully there's already a weapon hint for that) and rebalanced turn rates without it and projectle PD 3D targeting seems much more reliable.

On laser PD, I find it fine that it is the best at taking out most missiles. As far as my rework goes, beam PD is generally best against missiles, but poor against anything with any armor at all (including fighters), while solid gun PD is good against fighters, but unreliable against fast missiles.
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Matheld

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.2
« Reply #1102 on: March 03, 2024, 11:59:51 AM »

Ran into a crash involving an Exo-Tech hullmod from "Random Assortment of things" Which seems to conflict with Realistic combat. Seems to be an issue with the hullmod not being able to apply a skill to the fighters it spawns in.

Spoiler
197497 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at RealisticCombat.com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.skills.EnergyWeaponTraining$Level1.unapply(EnergyWeaponTraining.java:68)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CharacterStats.unapplyPersonalToShip(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.setCaptain(Unknown Source)
   at assortment_of_things.exotech.hullmods.alteration.AutonomousBaysHullmod.applyEff ectsToFighterSpawnedByShip(AutonomousBaysHullmod.kt:64)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.oOOO.C.ÒO0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.oOOO.C.public(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.ship.oOOO.C.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Should I post it there as well?

By the by I had the exact same issue as this one, only this time with ballistic weapon training instead. Simplest solution on my end is to just... simply not use the autonomous bay hullmod from RAD.
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AlexTyler962

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1103 on: March 29, 2024, 07:56:36 PM »

I have a problem with this mod.
Every time I use it I can't use my main weapons but it can only fire missiles.
Every time that I try to use weapons that it's selected on it doesn't. It also seems that projectile weapons don't work either. Help
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Helldiver

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1104 on: March 29, 2024, 09:54:00 PM »

I have a problem with this mod.
Every time I use it I can't use my main weapons but it can only fire missiles.
Every time that I try to use weapons that it's selected on it doesn't. It also seems that projectile weapons don't work either. Help

Did you try autofire for projectile weapons, or aiming at the circle displayed on manual targets? This is what allows firing with normal settings.
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KvaKer

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1105 on: April 13, 2024, 07:09:22 AM »

I'm happy with this mod, lately Realistic Combat has become the main mod in the build. But I would like to point out those moments that work poorly or strangely.
1. There are problems with missiles, the AI for some reason launches them earlier, missing in a large number of situations. This also applies to bombers.
2. Low Tech dominates, armor strongly decides. High Tech is in the ***, shields are breaking through quickly, but there is no armor. They explode with every sneeze. (subjectively)
3. Honestly, I do not understand the damage system, the guns against energy shields are working with a bang, but the guns for destroying armor or hull are just in terrible condition, causing scanty damage. For example, I completely pierced the enemy's armor with missiles (let's say he had 1,500 armor units), it seems that HE or Shrapnel damage should just tear the ship apart, but this does not happen. Meta at the moment is reaper torpedoes, since they penetrate the armor and hull of the enemy, you do not want to use guns against armor for their intended purpose because they are weak.
4. The problem is very annoying when you fight with the defenders of an abandoned station or something else and the enemy has 3-4 ships that retreated, you attack them again, deal 0 damage, they retreated again and so 4-6 times until the enemy fleet collapses from lack of CR. Infuriating.
5. The phase ships seemed to be cruelly humiliated by the range of the guns (highly subjective)
6. Safety overrides, as if it is useless to use, it cuts the range too much. Also, many of the officers' skills have been devalued and turned into + 10% combat readiness. + High resolution sensors gives you the wrong s-mod bonus
conclusion:
Super weird damage works, missiles = the only normal damage
AI does not work well with missiles, it launches much earlier or into the void, most often I noticed this problem with Reaper torpedoes
AI constantly retreats when defending objects, takes a lot of time for the player
Safety overrides cuts the range too much
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KvaKer

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1106 on: April 14, 2024, 11:20:26 PM »

When setting the "replace Damage Model" parameter:false lasers start doing too much damage. Why did I do that? I'm just not really satisfied with the redesigned armor of the ships, the guns feel like toys and I was looking for a way to remove this aspect but leave everything else. Can you add a parameter so that ships take damage as before, but with the rest of the mod's features?
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KvaKer

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1107 on: April 15, 2024, 12:07:05 AM »

So now I found the "damage Bonus High Explosive Projectile" parameter, set the value to 300, the guns began to inflict minimal damage, BUT only rapid-fire, some (large-caliber) guns for 1500 damage still cause 10 times less damage. Why is that?
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KvaKer

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1108 on: April 15, 2024, 12:13:20 AM »

So now I found the "damage Bonus High Explosive Projectile" parameter, set the value to 300, the guns began to inflict minimal damage, BUT only rapid-fire, some (large-caliber) guns for 1500 damage still cause 10 times less damage. Why is that?
There is a problem, this additional damage also works on energy shields
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XYZZQ

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Re: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4
« Reply #1109 on: April 24, 2024, 02:00:38 AM »

any chance that we will bring back the additional missiles for the missile skill? really miss it XD
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