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Author Topic: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.6  (Read 308352 times)

Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #360 on: August 24, 2022, 05:11:33 PM »

Testing the new version on [REDACTED] fleets.

It's impossible to win. A single Fulgent class ship just dominates two battleships easily. The rest I'd their fleet composition behaves normally, i think.

I still haven't met the [REDACTED] yet!  :-[

RacoonBro

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #361 on: August 24, 2022, 07:42:41 PM »

On a topic of balance and Qol.

1. Would it be possible to make a toggle or maybe there is already a setting to cut the range of the weapons in like half?

As much as i like the mod i dont like the weapons range being so long. I sometimes enter battles and get killed in the first few seconds cause i got sniped from across the map. I know its ur vision and all so thats why i think a toggle or a setting would be nice to have for added customization.

2. Can i get a toggle for that triangle thing? (And maybe for targeting pip too)

I dont feel like i need it and im pretty sure that if i would just delete the graphic the game is not gonna like that. Also for the targeting pip it would be nice if it could be a bit smaller or if u could pick a size for urself.
(or maybe even delete it entirely for added difficulty)


Thanks in advance!
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byorh2

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #362 on: August 24, 2022, 08:00:46 PM »

Would it technically be possible to make ship mods and faction mods compatible with Archean Order by using this mod? Since all weapons and all ships would be using Realistic Combat's things, there wouldn't be much of an issue with some weapons being overpowered or unbalanced, right?

BTW, nice work, love the mod.
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Bought Starsector in 2019.

tigartar

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.14.1
« Reply #363 on: August 24, 2022, 11:15:37 PM »

Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying the mod so far, one thing I noticed is using the Console Commands to set "god" doesn't make my ships invulnerable interestingly.

Is there a reason why it doesn't work despite saying that godmode has been enabled? Perhaps the way how Realistic Combat handles the damage stuff?

My guess is that because both mods try to mess with similar systems with the god command setting damage taken and repair timers to 0 whereas realistic combat alters the way these values to a point where the god command doesn't work just a wild guess really but it is sad to see as god mode is nice to have at certain times(certain nearly invulnerable ships due to weird mod interactions) were as this mod just makes the combat way better and don't want to get stuck with only using ships with shields of 300+ arc
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Enez61

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #364 on: August 25, 2022, 12:42:50 AM »

My bad. I meant Brilliant class, not Fulgent
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RacoonBro

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #365 on: August 25, 2022, 01:00:19 AM »

After further testing i also have to say that [REDACTED] are just absurdly powerful now, at least relative to what the game tooltip says.

I encountered a 1 star group apparently and they completely anihalted me. I pretty much did 0 damage to them and they were all fast af.

Idk if they have like some specific buffs but it would be nice if they could maybe be nerfed just a bit so at least i'd have a fighting chance.

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RacoonBro

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #366 on: August 25, 2022, 02:01:26 AM »

I also had the same thing happen as i reported before. As soon as i blew up enemy ship my game crashed with this:

3405750 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:249)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

So maybe there is still something to fix? It doesnt happen every time but like in 10-20% of the battles i would say
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Gameciel

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #367 on: August 25, 2022, 03:13:53 AM »

Just an add on, can you or did you start working on tooltips of shield, armor and weapon types? Cuz clearly this mod changes them completely already. It is very misleading to keep seeing things like "200% to armor, 50% to shield, 25% to hull" stuff anymore.

Penetration is what kinetic does, but it gets deflected by angled armor (Or u take it purely as thicker effective armor whatever). High explosive just does the damage in a different way, maybe contact fuze or proximity fuze or else, so it should less likely bounce off (At least given the warhead should be optimized this way, AND for game balancing). Also for balancing, if you still leave that 50% load of high explosives to shield, bad idea! It almost makes it THE WORST option at all in almost any cases. Cuz u can deal prob same damage just with large kinetic bolt right? AND it's 200% good to shield AS WELL! Huh, then blind autocannon! Why not? Fast and through and bashes shields! The only single HE thing I used at all is just hellbore, for the 1050 bolt damage. And I don't even care if it's high explosive. If u give me another kinetic 1050 damage I'm more than happy to chuck hellbore into bin lol.

Definetly lots of balancing to do, but most importantly, I think you're lacking a systematic idea of the roles (or functions) design of each weapon in the first place. Maybe list these out first, like why would anyone use "a weapon" like autocannon or MG? And why would anyone not use that weapon? The specifications.

For example if u ask me why would I use autocannon, to anti shield, then u should make them bounce off armor, way easier. Only very straight hits go through.
MG for anti-air, then it should have less penalty with angle.
Or it could actually be the other way to be more real, u want me to use autocannon for AA and MG for shield? Fine. Then single hard hit on shields should be way softer. MG does 5,5,5,5,5 then its effectively 25 on shield, but a single 25 from ac would only hit as 17 or 18, and so on. But then vulcans fire really fast, so they should be really good to shield? Maybe, maybe not. Really suggest designing this first maybe as a roadmap and stick to it.

But now, AC got some penetration, pretty dead accurate, very good against shields, self sufficient ammo, and with vanilla PD hullmods I just spam this thing on all ships. MG or anthing else actually is completely useless in any aspect.

I really love the idea of introducing the real world scale and armor mechanisms, but don't want to lose it in balancing. The game provided you a good excuse, shields. It does't really exists, so even if a weapon is just in fact a really s**t idea in real life, u can still make it good in your balance system right?
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MrNage

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #368 on: August 25, 2022, 05:33:59 PM »

Would it be feasible to add a toggle for the armor/shield damage calc's of ships and/or fighters, separately? I am intrigued by the possibilities that this option offers, if made available.

Edit: also, having a toggle for the target-leading pip, radar, and momentum indicator would be nice.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 05:46:52 PM by MrNage »
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Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.16.0
« Reply #369 on: August 25, 2022, 06:06:05 PM »

Patch 1.16.0 is out! I have refactored all the settings files by adding documentation to every setting and consolidating the common settings of the HUD extensions.

Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #370 on: August 25, 2022, 06:22:15 PM »

On a topic of balance and Qol.

1. Would it be possible to make a toggle or maybe there is already a setting to cut the range of the weapons in like half?

You can adjust all the weapon range bonuses in WeaponSpecs.json

Quote
2. Can i get a toggle for that triangle thing? (And maybe for targeting pip too)

You had one in the settings and a toggle key for it, but you never checked, and I never told you.  Anyway, I have consolidated all the HUD extension toggle keys and enable-disable toggles, so you cannot toggle them separately anymore. 

Quote
Also for the targeting pip it would be nice if it could be a bit smaller or if u could pick a size for urself.
(or maybe even delete it entirely for added difficulty)

The lead indicator size can be adjusted in LeadIndicator.json

After further testing i also have to say that [REDACTED] are just absurdly powerful now, at least relative to what the game tooltip says.

I encountered a 1 star group apparently and they completely anihalted me. I pretty much did 0 damage to them and they were all fast af.

Idk if they have like some specific buffs but it would be nice if they could maybe be nerfed just a bit so at least i'd have a fighting chance.

That's terrifying!  I have no idea why.  Stay away from the [REDACTED] for now, I guess.

Just an add on, can you or did you start working on tooltips of shield, armor and weapon types? Cuz clearly this mod changes them completely already. It is very misleading to keep seeing things like "200% to armor, 50% to shield, 25% to hull" stuff anymore.

I wish I could change them but don't know how.

Quote
Penetration is what kinetic does, but it gets deflected by angled armor (Or u take it purely as thicker effective armor whatever). High explosive just does the damage in a different way, maybe contact fuze or proximity fuze or else, so it should less likely bounce off (At least given the warhead should be optimized this way, AND for game balancing).

Read the field manual: kinetic and high explosive are both armor-piercing rounds, just of different types, so armor angling works on both.

Quote
Also for balancing, if you still leave that 50% load of high explosives to shield, bad idea! It almost makes it THE WORST option at all in almost any cases. Cuz u can deal prob same damage just with large kinetic bolt right? AND it's 200% good to shield AS WELL! Huh, then blind autocannon! Why not? Fast and through and bashes shields! The only single HE thing I used at all is just hellbore, for the 1050 bolt damage. And I don't even care if it's high explosive. If u give me another kinetic 1050 damage I'm more than happy to chuck hellbore into bin lol.

Read the field manual: high explosive deals more damage if you penetrate the armor.

Quote
Definetly lots of balancing to do, but most importantly, I think you're lacking a systematic idea of the roles (or functions) design of each weapon in the first place. Maybe list these out first, like why would anyone use "a weapon" like autocannon or MG? And why would anyone not use that weapon? The specifications.

You have a lot of reading of the field manual to do because the mechanics it details imply why you would want to use weapons from each  category.

Quote
For example if u ask me why would I use autocannon, to anti shield, then u should make them bounce off armor, way easier. Only very straight hits go through.
MG for anti-air, then it should have less penalty with angle.
Or it could actually be the other way to be more real, u want me to use autocannon for AA and MG for shield? Fine. Then single hard hit on shields should be way softer. MG does 5,5,5,5,5 then its effectively 25 on shield, but a single 25 from ac would only hit as 17 or 18, and so on. But then vulcans fire really fast, so they should be really good to shield? Maybe, maybe not. Really suggest designing this first maybe as a roadmap and stick to it.

But now, AC got some penetration, pretty dead accurate, very good against shields, self sufficient ammo, and with vanilla PD hullmods I just spam this thing on all ships. MG or anthing else actually is completely useless in any aspect.

I really love the idea of introducing the real world scale and armor mechanisms, but don't want to lose it in balancing. The game provided you a good excuse, shields. It does't really exists, so even if a weapon is just in fact a really s**t idea in real life, u can still make it good in your balance system right?

You using version 1.15?  Decreasing shield damage proportion with decreasing weapon power is used to balance weapons already.  ;)

Would it be feasible to add a toggle for the armor/shield damage calc's of ships and/or fighters, separately? I am intrigued by the possibilities that this option offers, if made available.

Edit: also, having a toggle for the target-leading pip, radar, and momentum indicator would be nice.

Why would fighters not have a realistic damage model?  I just consolidated all the toggles into one.

I also had the same thing happen as i reported before. As soon as i blew up enemy ship my game crashed with this:

3405750 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:249)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.A.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

So maybe there is still something to fix? It doesnt happen every time but like in 10-20% of the battles i would say

The latest version will still crash here--but more-informatively to help us get to the bottom of this!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 06:34:51 PM by Liral »
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MrNage

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #371 on: August 25, 2022, 06:45:06 PM »

Why would fighters not have a realistic damage model?  I just consolidated all the toggles into one.

I was thinking the other way around - fighters only having the calc's.


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RacoonBro

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.16.0
« Reply #372 on: August 25, 2022, 10:42:12 PM »

Thank you for the continued work on this mod Liral!

I will test the new patch and hopefully we ll find out what causes this crash. Cause it must be this mod because i played with "replaceDamageModel":false, for a few hours now and had 0 crashes. So it must be that option causing issues.

Also, if you would like some faster and possibly more detailed feedback etc. you could join the unofficial discord cause forum posting is much slower (at least in my opinion).

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Gameciel

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.15.0
« Reply #373 on: August 25, 2022, 11:07:12 PM »

Quote
Quote
Also for balancing, if you still leave that 50% load of high explosives to shield, bad idea! It almost makes it THE WORST option at all in almost any cases. Cuz u can deal prob same damage just with large kinetic bolt right? AND it's 200% good to shield AS WELL! Huh, then blind autocannon! Why not? Fast and through and bashes shields! The only single HE thing I used at all is just hellbore, for the 1050 bolt damage. And I don't even care if it's high explosive. If u give me another kinetic 1050 damage I'm more than happy to chuck hellbore into bin lol.

Read the field manual: high explosive deals more damage if you penetrate the armor.

Really? I did read the manual, but the high explosive hits are actually a LOT softer than I expected. My personal preference was assault chainguns but they were just not as effective as autocannons hitting armor.
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GirlRat

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Re: [0.95.1a] Realistic Combat 1.16.0
« Reply #374 on: August 25, 2022, 11:42:29 PM »

Quote
65655 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at settings.DamageModelSettings.getDamageTypeDamageFactor(DamageModelSettings.java:54)
   at calculation.Damage.getPotentialDamage(Damage.java:52)
   at calculation.Damage.getDamage(Damage.java:68)
   at listeners.DamageTakenModifier.modifyDamageTaken(DamageTakenModifier.java:237)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:67)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.listeners.CombatListenerUtil.modifyDamageTaken(CombatListenerUtil.java:59)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.entities.Ship.applyDamage(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.O0OO.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.o0OO.A.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
D:
after updating to the newest version of your mod, shortly after starting a combat simulation
A minor nitpick, but would it be possible to provide separate download for the macosx one? I'm used to mods only requiring one extract into the mods folder for them to work. having to copy paste the regular version outside and overwrite the realistic combat folder is kind of a pain
Also keep up the good work.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 11:46:38 PM by GirlRat »
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