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[speeder]

Currently to get the mighty radiant, you need Automated Ships skill, that also severely limits the number of radiants you can get... since they are so OP this makes sense...

The problem is this end applying to all other automated ships too, and getting the skill in first place is too hard.

So my suggestion: allow automated ships in player fleet by default, don't even need to limit their numbers, if player wants to make a mighty fleet of derelict (not remnant ships) for example, they should be a ble to.

And then make the automated ships skill give a boost to those ships. Maybe make the skill control the amount of AI officers you can have (And thus force the player  to use automated ships without orfficers until they get the skill), or limit the OP points available to the ships, including making the limit flat, so players can build a cheap drone army, but their radiant will be severely limited until they get the skill....

Something like that.

Right  now if you want the radiant, you get the skill. And if you went through all this trouble  you won't bother with the frigates and stuff.
If you don't want the radiant, you don't waste a lot of skillpoints trying to get this skill... and you won't get the drone frigates even if you wanted to.

I think this state of affairs is sad. Lots of cool designs being wasted with the player not seeing them much.

[Megas]

My biggest gripe with automated ships is most are no better than human ships.  Even the strong ones (like Radiant) are not that exceptional without a high-grade core piloting them.  And alpha Radiant with Combat Endurance still requires the player to get either Crew Training or Hull Restoration to get max CR out of the yellow.

The one skill that "shouldn't be the content gate that it is" is Neural Link.  Player gets the equivalent of an alpha core (copy of the fleet commander) for one ship at a hullmod tax for both that ship and the flagship.  The hullmod tax alone is more than enough cost for what Neural Link can do (which is primarily buffing one human ship to perform as if piloted by an alpha core, except with Steady AI instead of Fearless).

[intrinsic_parity]

Remnant frigates are pretty good because of ECM. Slap a bunch of gamma cores in with gunnery implants and you will get a massive ECM advantage.

[Hatter]

Maybe make Automated Ships more accessible, but restrict placing AI cores (and maybe access to the Radiant) to a final-tier skill? A lot of the power comes from the AI cores.

[Amoebka]

Automated ships aren't by themselves any better than human ones. You wouldn't even want to use them without officers. They need their full OP + a core officer to be competitive, nerfing those without the skill would make them unviable without it anyway.

Radiant feels pretty alright at 60 dp. The reason it feels so much better than competition is being a battleship. All late-game threats oneshot anything smaller than a heavy cruiser, so you are never going to bother with Fulgents, no matter the numbers.

ECM doesn't matter. Maxing 10% against humans is trivial, winning against full ordos is still not an option.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Radiant feels pretty alright at 60 dp. The reason it feels so much better than competition is being a battleship. All late-game threats oneshot anything smaller than a heavy cruiser, so you are never going to bother with Fulgents, no matter the numbers.

ECM doesn't matter. Maxing 10% against humans is trivial, winning against full ordos is still not an option.

Glimmers are also pretty good with gamma core + wolfpack tactics. And you can beat full ordos in terms of ECM, it is an option, you just have to specialize for it. Grabbing automated ships for glimmer spam makes it incredibly easy since you can grab the ECM skill along the way, but there are other options. ECM units on your carriers combined with cybernetic implants to get elite gunnery implants on a few omens and monitors can get you up to a decent amount. It gets harder the higher you set the battle size because every remnant ship has an officer while you have to stick to a cap, but on the default 300 it's not super hard.

[intrinsic_parity]

ECM doesn't matter. Maxing 10% against humans is trivial, winning against full ordos is still not an option.

You can get 60+ ECM rating if you min-max it which is enough to beat full ordos depending on the skills they roll. More realistically, you can also use a few remnant frigates as an electronic warfare substitute to free up a skill point (it has to go somewhere else in the tech tree, but it's still some freedom). I've found that 5 GI glimmers + 1 beta radiant is an interesting alternative to an alpha radiant.

[Serenitis]

Gate recovery of automated ships by size classification.
The ability to recover a given size of ship is dictated by how many technology skills the player has.
Example:

• FF - 1 tech skill
• DD - 2 tech skills
• CA - 4 tech skills
• BB - 8 tech skills

[Grievous69]

I just think it's weird how Derelicts and Remnants compete for the same skill.

[Megas]

but on the default 300 it's not super hard.

Default is 400 now, but only if installed on a fresh computer without an older version of Starsector with older default installed.

I just think it's weird how Derelicts and Remnants compete for the same skill.

Only because most of the Derelicts are bad.  I find Rampart good for 15 DP.

Automated ships aren't by themselves any better than human ones. You wouldn't even want to use them without officers. They need their full OP + a core officer to be competitive, nerfing those without the skill would make them unviable without it anyway.

I would not call using them as normal unofficered ships without the skill a nerf when the current way without the skill is impossible to use because max CR is zero.

Automated ships aren't by themselves any better than human ones.

The one case that sticks out where automated is better than human ship is Glimmer vs. Wolf.  Same DP cost, similar mounts, but Glimmer has 100 more dissipation (and a bit more capacity) than Wolf.  Wolf used to have omni shield but lost it without getting a bigger shield arc in return.

[SCC]

You can technically own (though not recover) Automated Ships even without AS skill. They just will have 0% CR. As far as I am concerned, the way it works now is fine. AS skill isn't underpowered or overpowered. If anything, the Neural Link needs a buff.

[speeder]

You can technically own (though not recover) Automated Ships even without AS skill. They just will have 0% CR. As far as I am concerned, the way it works now is fine. AS skill isn't underpowered or overpowered. If anything, the Neural Link needs a buff.

The problem is not AS being whateverpowered.

The problem is you not being able to use some interesting ships because you need AS, and if you have AS there are way better ships to use.

If you bothered with the whole blue skills to get AS, you are going for high-tech, not Derelict.

[Megas]

I get Tech because...

Navigation is great for more burn (two less tugs taking fleet slots to get burn 20).  Also T-Jump before that ability is obtained from questing.

Gunnery Implants and Flux Regulations are great for anyone or everyone, except maybe Gryphon spamming Squalls and Harpoons.

That is three for all-purpose Tech skills.

If I want to pilot Ziggurat (or other phase ship), I want Phase Coil Tuning.

From there, it is one more point for either Neural Link or Automated Ships.

[speeder]

Thing is, what if  you DON'T want pahse ships?

For example I tend to focus on industry and leadership skills because I like colonies and fighters.

I don't want the high-tech ships with phase coils or complicated shields.

The derelict drones don't have phasing, don't have shields, yet I can't get them unless I get more tech skills.

Get what I am saying?

[ubuntufreakdragon]

Gate recovery of automated ships by size classification.
The ability to recover a given size of ship is dictated by how many technology skills the player has.
Example:

• FF - 1 tech skill
• DD - 2 tech skills
• CA - 4 tech skills
• BB - 8 tech skills

I would use these values:

• FF - 1 tech skill
• DD - 2 tech skills
• CA - 3 tech skills
• BB - 5 tech skills

Fibonacci sequence is a nice thing for balancing such things.