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Author Topic: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract  (Read 2905 times)

SpoonWasAlreadyTaken

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This has probably been discussed here but I couldn't find anything of this specific sort.
So I recently got back in to the game and killed the Coronal Hypershunt Guardians and was disappointed that it is as far as I'm aware the only ship in the game the player is unable to get. I get why they did it, its very powerful. And I'm still hoping that there will be a way (Vanilla) to get it maybe by defeating the next or final big boss of the game. Additionally they could have done easily done what they did with the Ziggurat and let the player get a weaker version without the splitting shards and slightly reduced stats or "whatever". A partial reason of why I'm asking is that I'm fully aware that you can edit the csv to be able to get it and there are probably a dozen or so mods that allow you to get it, but its still nicer if it would be possible in the base game. Another reason why I'm asking is that it has the Temporal Shell System and It's probably my favorite one in concept but the only other ship that has it is the Scarab and its about as useful as a bag of rocks while trying to swim.
So I pose a question to you fine people of the Starsector community. Do you think you will be able to get it at some point in the base game and is there any reason you think that it isn't possible currently?
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Grievous69

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2022, 11:44:49 PM »

Just to address one thing: Scarab is one of the best frigates in the game currently, better than Tempest right now.

As for the Tesseract, I doubt we'll see anything made for the player. That version would have to be SEVERELY nerfed.
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2022, 12:35:40 AM »

Storywise omega technology is meant to be beyond human understanding so we can only get a small taste through their weapons. Even then their weapons are in limited supply for each playthrough, and we don't get any fighter LPCs from them.

Temporal shell is cool and all, but it's insanely powerful and that's probably why we can only use it on a frigate that doesn't even get medium slots. It's kinda like getting an accelerated ammo feeder that works for all weapons AND plasma jets at the same time except it's actually better than that. Right now I believe the Tesseract costs 24 dp despite being more powerful than pretty much anything else in the game, so it seems like Alex has no intention of giving it to us. Nothing wrong with limiting some stuff to modded games only.
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Ruddygreat

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2022, 05:50:43 AM »

It's unobtainable because it's not been designed with the intent of the player having one. The ship itself is frankly a boring stat-stick, it has ridiculous stats & mounts for a cruiser (y'know, the thing that lets it go up against fleets without breaking a sweat); the only thing really going for it is the splitting mechanic, and that's been coded in a way that would prevent battles from ever ending if the player got their hands on one (though it's easy to fix, if alex was so inclined).
(also, the cryosleeper guardians aren't obtainable for similar reasons, if the player could drive them they'd trivialise all content because unlimited missiles lol)

As for them being obtainable, I hope it never happens. They're meant to be a (basically) alien & completely incomprehensible force that's doing wierd things for unknown goals, allowing the player to directly interact with them like that would take away the whole vibe and kinda just ruin them completely imo.

Megas

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2022, 06:02:16 AM »

One look at the Tesseract's stats should make it apparent that it is not balanced like playable ships.  From a quick glance, I see unlimited PPT and enough speed (with its system) to outrun just about anything if it wants to win by running out their clock instead of just killing them, if it were playable.

Guardian has unlimited missiles.  Get rid of unlimited missiles, and up its DP cost to about 75 or 80, and it might be balanced enough to be playable.
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speeder

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2022, 07:47:24 AM »

I am actually playing with a modded Guardian.

Without the unlimited missiles it kinda suck.

WITH the unlimited missiles... then it is a serious powerhouse, and indeed worth some rather high DP cost, the mod uses 160 DP for a pure missile guardian and 80 DP for the other variants.
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Brainwright

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2022, 08:29:40 AM »

May as well ask why we can't get the Xenorphica as it is when you actually fight it.  I, too, would love to have the motes do damage!
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speeder

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2022, 08:39:59 AM »

I edited a save to re-enable the zig motes...

They are hilariously powerful, you can kill almost anything with them (the exception is the tesseract, with the "stock" zig variant you won't kill the tesseract even with the OP motes...).

It was kinda funny wandering in a Ordos, deploying only the zig, and seeing everything die.
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Megas

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2022, 08:49:37 AM »

Weakened Ziggurat with blue motes can solo double Tesseracts at the hypershunts.  (It was not easy, but it is doable.)  I did not use stock loadout with plasma, disintegrators/maulers, and reapers.  Used lances, needlers, and IR PLs (latter for additional PD when motes were not enough).  When I lowered map size to 200, I could solo the special Remnant bounty led by Tesseract flagship with Ziggurat.

Phase Anchor is an enabler that powers up Ziggurat.  Makes burst weapons like lances and needlers more powerful.

When Ziggurat gets Omega weapons, especially enough AMSRMs and Resonators, it gets crazy.  It can solo double or triple Ordos, and it can solo the entire simulator before CR decays to zero.

Ziggurat with Phase Anchor is very strong.  Makes Neural Link Radiant look like a chump.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 08:52:17 AM by Megas »
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speeder

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2022, 08:55:07 AM »

Oh yeah, like I said I was toying with the ziggurat without adding more hullmods, to see what the stock variant could do. An optmized Ziggurat is something else entirely.

Also the "playable guardian" mod in my playthough, with a lot of modded hullmods I added to it, can solo almost anything as far as I know (I did had a close call with a bounty that had destroyers flagship and they managed to get behind the guardian and take a good chunk of the hull... even being able to fight multiple capital ships at same time, guardian is vulnerable to anything that gets behind its shield...)
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SpoonWasAlreadyTaken

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2022, 11:29:24 AM »

One look at the Tesseract's stats should make it apparent that it is not balanced like playable ships.  From a quick glance, I see unlimited PPT and enough speed (with its system) to outrun just about anything if it wants to win by running out their clock instead of just killing them, if it were playable.

Guardian has unlimited missiles.  Get rid of unlimited missiles, and up its DP cost to about 75 or 80, and it might be balanced enough to be playable.

Oh I know, I can't resist not snooping around in a games code (I don't mean like the actual base code, more of what makes it tick and the stats of things) or at least what I can somewhat easily access. This is why I said a nerfed version, or another ships with temporal shell.
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SpoonWasAlreadyTaken

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2022, 11:34:17 AM »

Just to address one thing: Scarab is one of the best frigates in the game currently, better than Tempest right now.

As for the Tesseract, I doubt we'll see anything made for the player. That version would have to be SEVERELY nerfed.

Could you do me the favor of showing me or telling me how the scarab is good because I at least cant figure it out nor can I find anything on the internet due to it having almost any presence on youtube and such.

But you have to admit that a Tesseract or a very nerfed version of it would be a cool final reward to the player when you manage to kill the final final thing or its equivalent or something of the sort. If you are familiar with the game Terraria, in it you can a set of weapons when you kill the final boss, those weapons are so powerful you can kill the final boss with your eyes closed with them, nobody really uses them in a vanilla game but they are cool as all heck to have as that last hurray of the game.


Note: In total I estimate about 150 hours on the game combined from like 20 hours when I first played it 3 years ago and a 120 now in my 2 saves. So I do have quite a lot of things to learn about the game, and I am the type of person that loves to min-max, but interestingly enough as my day job I balance things in games, while they are not video games but rather TTRPG's although the same principle mostly applies.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 11:38:59 AM by SpoonWasAlreadyTaken »
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2022, 03:59:47 PM »

Doesn't have to be the tesseract itself but an automated ship that can split itself upon defeat like them would be really fun to play around with. Chances are it is going to come from a questline with an Omega capital ship or station at the end of it and i am scared at the very idea of it.
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Grievous69

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2022, 12:03:04 AM »

Could you do me the favor of showing me or telling me how the scarab is good because I at least cant figure it out nor can I find anything on the internet due to it having almost any presence on youtube and such.
1 Antimatter Blaster and 2 IR Pulse lasers (you can put PD in the back if you feel like it) and then max flux stats, and add Hardened Subsystems, Hardened shields, etc. if you still have room or invest in s-mods. I'm too lazy to make a video now but that thing will be the most reliable little thing in your fleet, has no trouble facing up destroyers, and is quite survivable on its own. Just remember to retreat it once the PPT goes down.
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smithney

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Re: Curious on why it isn't possible (Vanilla) to get the Tesseract
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2022, 12:05:20 AM »

But you have to admit that a Tesseract or a very nerfed version of it would be a cool final reward to the player when you manage to kill the final final thing or its equivalent or something of the sort. If you are familiar with the game Terraria, in it you can a set of weapons when you kill the final boss, those weapons are so powerful you can kill the final boss with your eyes closed with them, nobody really uses them in a vanilla game but they are cool as all heck to have as that last hurray of the game.

Idk, I prefer the open and undefined "ending" Starsector has to the "Congratulations! You defeated the final boss! Here have a reward that completely trivializes the game because we have no more challenge to offer you!" approach. This way you just quit when you start getting bored and don't feel pressured to "complete" a sandbox game.
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