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Author Topic: How do you use battlecruisers properly?  (Read 7342 times)

BigBrainEnergy

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2022, 12:48:23 AM »

Of course, that's, like, the whole point of specialized builds. It sucks in 1v1 but it doesn't have to 1v1 because that can be left to the rest of your fleet.
You can also anchor it with a low-tech gunship, like something from the fourteenth.
Ah yes, the classic hammer and scalpel technique.
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TaLaR

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2022, 01:46:00 AM »

If goal is just to make 1v1 AI duel ship, then just spam missiles. Squalls + Harpoons + Gauss Conquest, or Squalls + Harpoons + TL + Autopulse Odyssey. Conquest will win against any standard sim ship including Paragon (in fact it defeats any custom Paragon build I could come up with), Odyssey will beat anything short of Paragon. But these are pretty bad for actual combat due to limited missiles, and waste them easily in multi-target environment.

Player builds rely on precise range management (Conquest) or getting into the other ship's blindspot (Odyssey vs Onslaught or Paragon). AI is incapable of both, so as AI ships both are unimpressive.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 01:47:34 AM by TaLaR »
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2022, 07:05:24 PM »

Personally i am dying to try that ship out. It has lots of guns, two big missiles for the new pilum catapults, an interesting active, you can add hangars to it, sure the lack of shields is kind of painful but it is such a cool ship. The cost of 2000 crew to man it sounds very painful though.

(Uh... I don't know how i did it but i managed to post a post on a wrong thread)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 12:55:12 PM by Doctorhealsgood »
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Grievous69

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2022, 11:28:18 PM »

Wait until you hear it's actually 4000 crew.
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2022, 06:38:59 AM »

Get a couple of those in your fleet and suddenly you're flying around a size 4 colony. That's enough for pather cells to appear.
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smithney

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2022, 09:40:49 AM »

Wait, I thought the 2000 crew referred to the dreadnought :O Did I miss something or is Retribution gonna be a portable colony, too?
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Grievous69

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2022, 10:12:07 AM »

Nah, they were talking about Invictus.
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LinWasTaken

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2022, 02:33:14 AM »

There are two types of people: symmetric conquesters and non-symmetric conquesters.
there are also conquest disdainers.

Plantissue

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2022, 01:06:26 PM »

Ignoring using the battlecruisers as player piloted, after long experimentation, I find the best way to use AI controlled battlecruisers effectively is to base a whole fleet out of them at least in regard to the Conquest. Other ships must be at least as fast or carriers, so they can be mutually supporting of each other, able to hide behind each other, as opposed to being left behind or dashing too far ahead. The fleets weakness is when facing weapons which bypass it's small shield arc hitting its very wide body length, but is otherwise very adaptable. For this purpose, a symmetrical loadout is best as the AI is actually very good about flipping over to the more armoured side with the working weapons, esentially doubling your armour and reducing weapon repair downtime.

For player controlled anything goes really including the very boring Gauss cannon build, which really isn't a good use of the player's strength.
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Sebenko

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2022, 03:07:01 AM »

1. Deploy battlecruisers
2. Use the same way you would a battleship
3. Wait for battlecruisers to explode
4. "There appears to be something wrong with our bloody ships today"  8)
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Shirobine

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2022, 05:22:32 PM »

I've had some success using shield shunt on the Conquest. I tried it originally on the Onslaught but surprisingly it's much easier to get in damage with the Conquest, especially thanks to it's maneuvering jets and speed. Using a side with nothing but needlers, an Ion pulse, Burst PD lasers and having the front end be Cyclone Reapers for the finisher. Not having to worry about shields makes flux issues non-existent. The only issue I've found is when it get's hit by a lot of EMP weapons. Resistant flux, repair unit and solar helps mitigate this weakness, but it's not perfect. Also you have to build in stuff like Heavy armor to make it work.
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BCS

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2022, 10:03:05 PM »

Well then, let me add my experiences. I have never had AI issues with either Odyssey or the Conquest. Now that I think about it I don't actually recall either ever getting blown up at all, which is quite impressive.

If anything I was impressed with Conquest AI, as it will switch sides when guns on one get disabled or it takes too much damage(yes I use symmetrical Conquests)
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Kos135

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2022, 10:14:16 PM »

Get a couple of those in your fleet and suddenly you're flying around a size 4 colony. That's enough for pather cells to appear.
It has sometimes occurred to me when looking at my fleet's total crew count, "I'm basically flying a large town around in outer space."
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ohama

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2022, 06:14:31 AM »

How do you use them?
TLDR; use the large missile slots, fit one side for main damage, fight outside enemy range, don't fight alone, don't shield tank too much, and don't stop shooting.

For me, the Conquest is a ship built around 2 large missile slots. Large missiles are the most impactful weapons in the game, that's why I think that Conquest fits that leave the LM slots empty are tantamount to trolling. Whatever you're fitting the Conquest for, make sure that it's built around your large missiles. Large missiles are all long range, so the rest of my fit is going to be long-range focused.

The important weapons for my Conquest are 2x Gauss, 2x Hurricane, 2x Salamander MRM, 2x Devastators on the off-side, Ion Beam on the firing side, and everything else is point defense.
Again, large missiles are my main weapons, so ECCM and EMR are priority hullmods.
I position the Conquest so that it's on one flank, close enough to shoot cruisers and above but far enough to not get shot at, backed up by my core supports (explained later). My actions are mostly the same in every engagement:
  • Keep gauss cannon and ion beam focused on the most dangerous target in range.
  • -- Conquest can fire its broadside forever, so maximize your time spent firing.
  • Use hurricanes on any ships that are overloaded.
  • Use hurricanes on ships that are shield flickering so that they're forced to keep shield up.
  • Use salamander on pesky destroyers/frigates trying to flank.
  • Shield tank missiles and large weapons, armor tank everything else (if it even reaches me at 1500+ range).
  • -- You want your hard flux as low as possible in case something happens.

Conquest needs two core supports in my fleet and I try to stick with them whenever I can. If I'm with my supports, we can stare down a Radiant without taking much damage.
  • Champion (Squall, Tachyon Lance) - non-blocking kinetic damage, and massive burst EMP damage. Useful buddy to have when you mess up and have to fight a capital at close range.
  • Any fighter carrier - for keeping nearby frigates and destroyers busy. Not a bomber because 2 hurricanes (60 shots total with EMR + Missile spec) is enough for almost every single target the game throws at you.

I'm not a fan of symmetrical conquest at all. Too much OP going to waste on one side when Conquest can already turn on a dime, especially with elite Helmsmanship and elite Impact Mitigation. If you want to deal with flanking frigates/destroyers, I find that devastators are good enough to deter them from getting close.

This Conquest fit does pretty well against everything in a fleet setting, although it can't tank stations like Paragon and Onslaught can. In fact, it's pretty horrible since you can't outrange the station at all, which is how Conquest stays safe against equal or greater firepower.
If you're fighting a station, bring another capital ship.

I can't manage to keep either of them alive against our old frenemy The Sim Onslaught
I still use this as a benchmark, because even if you fail the 1v1 you still learn something about your ship. In my case though, you can win vs. Sim Onslaught as long as you keep yourself at max range. Shoot hurricane every once in a while so it stops shield flickering your gauss cannons. You'll have it at fluxed to hell in no time.
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Schwartz

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2022, 09:20:05 AM »

Symmetrical Conquest works great. I don't like the one-sided options, even though they may be very efficient.

I have recently discovered a pretty neat build that uses Mjolnirs, Railguns (with Ballistic Rangefinder mod) and Locusts. You end up paying 13 OP per Railgun for 900 Range, 167 DPS, 0,9 efficiency. That's arguably better than HVD. This only really works well with a high skill officer or player character. Note that Hardened Shields is the only shield mod. You want "decent" shields that are nevertheless used "very" situationally. You want to use this Conquest as a fast-moving, hard-hitting sniper platform that spikes shields and gets through armor fairly quickly, then finishes with Locusts. Leave all weapons (Locusts too) on auto and keep the Mjolnir arcs on display so you can maneuver properly. When played to its strengths, it can beat even the dangerous capitals and battlestations. When facing fleets, it usually kills 2 enemy cruisers at a time. Neat!



The Conquest hull is "pretty good", but also close to being OP-starved or stat-starved. It cannot reasonably support higher flux loadouts unless you go high vent/cap and leave shields as a last resort. It works, but it takes skill to pilot. That makes it exceedingly fun to fly as a flagship. I would be worried giving this to the AI.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 09:25:03 AM by Schwartz »
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