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Author Topic: How do you use battlecruisers properly?  (Read 7237 times)

Thaago

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2022, 12:20:01 PM »

In terms of using them properly (going way back to OP here!), they make for very good 'first' capital ships in a playthrough and are good capital ships to rush for. They have higher burn by default so you can get by at speed 9 with navigation, or 10 with augmented drive field and no skills, letting you choose your fights. They do really well against all the enemies in the midgame, where opposing battleships are rare and/or come with a small supporting fleet and you can gang up on them.
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Megas

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2022, 03:23:41 PM »

Note about AI Conquest:

If none of the ballistic and energy mounts have non-PD weapons, then AI Conquest will not use broadsides.  I tried IPDAI small weapons, dual flak, and devastators on Conquest for all of its non-missile mounts, and (to my disappointment) it refused to use a broadside against an enemy.  It pointed its bow toward its enemy at all times.  This happened when I tried Steady and Aggressive officers.  If I want Conquest to use broadsides, at least one weapon on its side needs to be a non-PD weapon.
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Delta_of_Isaire

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2022, 08:16:36 AM »

Battlecruisers trade defensive capabilities for speed. The main thing to remember is that this makes battlecruisers unsuitable for 1v1 against ships of their own size, i.e. battleships. (Although the case of human-piloted battlecruiser vs AI-piloted battleship is somewhat of an exception because human piloting is a significant advantage.)

Battlecruisers fill two roles on the battlefield. The first is punching down, killing cruisers and other ships smaller than themselves through superior firepower. The second is flanking other capitals that are occupied by teammates. In other words, hammer-and-anvil tactics where the battlecruiser is the hammer and the anvil is a proper battleship like Onslaught or Paragon. So it's not like you cannot attack an Onslaught or Paragon with a Conquest, but you need that Onslaught or Paragon to be distracted by one of your teammates first.

The way I fly the Conquest is as a second-line ship behind a battleship, ready to jump in and provide fire support while also preventing cruisers and smaller ships from flanking the battleship. I don't use Escort orders - instead, as a Conquest pilot I'm the escort. And I take to that role loosely, flying around the battlefield supporting whichever of my ships needs support rather than sticking with one ship to protect. If the enemy fleet completely lacks capitals then you don't need to hide behind your own capitals, but can take a more aggressive approach killing ships left and right. A properly outfitted and piloted Conquest has unrivaled damage output and crowd control capabilities.

Compared to the Conquest, the Odyssey has less damage output and weapon range but significantly more speed and a better shield. The Odyssey isn't as good at crowd control, but is better at hit-and-run tactics and can outrun cruiser fleets that are large enough to overwhelm a Conquest. Some say the Odyssey's speed advantage makes it the better playership. I think that's true if you use it to solo things, however in the presence of a supporting fleet the Conquest is at least as good, just in a different way.



As for Conquest loadouts:
You can go with double Gauss Cannons + double Hurricanes (and double Harpoons). This makes for an excellent 2nd-line support ship that can also attempt to kite slow capitals, but has noticeably less DPS than a 900 range weapon loadout, which limits its overall damage output and crowd control ability.

The second option is an asymmetrical DPS-focused build that puts as many big guns as possible on one side of the ship, alongside missiles. This type of loadout is excellent for aggressively flanking capitals and 1v1-ing cruisers. This is the default build strategy for most people.

My favorite loadouts are symmetrical, which is best for crowd control and tactical flexibility, but less good at 1v1. I do find plenty of opportunities to fire both broadsides at once. And I like how when using only one broadside, the flux cost is lower than dissipation which means you can dissipate flux (especially with shields down) and still output damage at the same time. Which is quite useful if you can't risk venting (because venting disables your PD).

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Daynen

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2022, 10:21:54 AM »

Delta's got the right of it.  Some ships aren't meant to butt heads within their class.  Some are meant to hunt other classes.  The conquest, in my experience, is a cruiser killer.  It's fast enough to keep pace with cruisers but brings overwhelming firepower by comparison and is tough enough to handle most cruiser-grade volleys.  Since it's a broadside vessel it's also easy to design it with either two-sided bombardment to handle destroyer flanking or heavy firepower on one side and heavy PD on the other to deflect fighter swarms.  You can also just load it down with your favorite missiles and wait for opportunities to unload for the kill.  The reason it can't handle a straight capital brawl like the Onslaught just comes down to weapon convergence.  It has all its biggest guns facing one direction, while the conquest is literally split down the middle.

In other words, the conquest is for murdering everything BUT capitals.  Probably shouldn't waste time chasing frigates either.
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Grievous69

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2022, 12:21:00 PM »

Me hunting and kiting capitals with my build O.o

Saying that battlecruisers shouldn't engage other capitals is weird, your playstyle just changes from "go in guns blazing" to "go in guns blazing while it's distracted".
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Ahueh

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2022, 12:34:54 PM »

Me hunting and kiting capitals with my build O.o

Saying that battlecruisers shouldn't engage other capitals is weird, your playstyle just changes from "go in guns blazing" to "go in guns blazing while it's distracted".

Post build?  ;)
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Grievous69

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2022, 12:41:06 PM »

Me hunting and kiting capitals with my build O.o

Saying that battlecruisers shouldn't engage other capitals is weird, your playstyle just changes from "go in guns blazing" to "go in guns blazing while it's distracted".

Post build?  ;)
Well that was in a previous playthrough but the idea is the same as the usual kiting build. 2x Gauss, 2x HVD, 2 Hurricanes (with ECCM), off side has Devastators and the rest is just PD. I think I had Phase Lances in the medium energies just to help me deal with small craft buzzing around me. Hullmods were ITU, Hardened Shields and Advanced Turret Gyros (Resistant Flux Conduits is nice if you can fit it), and of course maxed vents with whatever is left in caps.
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Salter

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2022, 04:24:29 PM »

Setting up battlecruisers for kiting is a good way to play them. Odyssey can mount Xyphos and a bunch of tac lasers + your choice of two energy beam mounts and can neatly fit ITU into it as well. It might not seem like much but its enhanced by fleet actions in regards to its fire support role.
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Thaago

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2022, 05:54:19 PM »

Me hunting and kiting capitals with my build O.o

Saying that battlecruisers shouldn't engage other capitals is weird, your playstyle just changes from "go in guns blazing" to "go in guns blazing while it's distracted".

Post build?  ;)
Well that was in a previous playthrough but the idea is the same as the usual kiting build. 2x Gauss, 2x HVD, 2 Hurricanes (with ECCM), off side has Devastators and the rest is just PD. I think I had Phase Lances in the medium energies just to help me deal with small craft buzzing around me. Hullmods were ITU, Hardened Shields and Advanced Turret Gyros (Resistant Flux Conduits is nice if you can fit it), and of course maxed vents with whatever is left in caps.

I'll second this build - I'm fond of putting in heavy blasters in the front mediums for the same purpose, though phase lances are more accurate and have that burst for popping frigates so I should give them a try.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2022, 09:29:37 PM »

Odyssey is significantly stronger with plasma cannons than any other weapon IMO.
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Grievous69

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2022, 11:18:12 PM »

You know, I recently just got an Odyssey flagship in my game, and for a change of pace I didn't go with my usual double Plasma Cannon with Paladin PD. Instead I used a single Plasma Cannon + Autopulse and a Hurricane on the side since my character now had Missile spec. I only needed 2 Sabot Pods and the rest was mostly Burst PD, with a few Rift Lances (which would be Antimatter Blasters otherwise). This build has a bit less punching power, it's noticeable when fighting battlestations, but it seems much more manageable and versatile. I don't need to rely on Sabots that much because Autopulse chews through shields, and if I need some extra cracking power, 20 Hurricanes is more than enough.

But yeah I'd never build a full beam Odyssey, seems like a waste for a ship with that speed and cost. Actually it might not be too bad with Rift Cascade Emitters, although not sure if that counts.
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Princess_of_Evil

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2022, 11:29:05 PM »

Full beam Oddy essentially becomes even more of a battlecruiser - it can burst down most cruisers near instantly, but capitals just laugh at it as its soft flux shield DPS bounces off just the natural vents.
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Serenitis

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2022, 11:53:20 PM »

Full beam Oddy essentially becomes even more of a battlecruiser - it can burst down most cruisers near instantly, but capitals just laugh at it as its soft flux shield DPS bounces off just the natural vents.
That's what Sabots, Longbows and other ships are for.
Disco Odyssey is an 'interference/aggro' build - it's there to make the enemy choose which threat to face, and get punished for whichever choice it makes.
It can burn holes in capitals just fine if you're not trying to do something dumb that doesn't fit the build (like solo everything).
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Salter

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2022, 11:55:59 PM »

Full beam Oddy essentially becomes even more of a battlecruiser - it can burst down most cruisers near instantly, but capitals just laugh at it as its soft flux shield DPS bounces off just the natural vents.

Which is why it needs an anchor like a Apogee and some swarmer ships like Hyperions. The alternative is that you build the odyssey for CQC. You can mount the front missile slots with reaper torpedo tubes, locust missile to provide fire cover for the reapers and your choice of close range large energy weapons, or go and mount HSA, throw the usual beam weapons on. Either way, you become a mean beating stick with alot of alpha-strike firepower and it gives you a way to flux up shields against capitals.
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Princess_of_Evil

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Re: How do you use battlecruisers properly?
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2022, 12:11:41 AM »

That's what Sabots, Longbows and other ships are for.
Disco Odyssey is an 'interference/aggro' build - it's there to make the enemy choose which threat to face, and get punished for whichever choice it makes.
It can burn holes in capitals just fine if you're not trying to do something dumb that doesn't fit the build (like solo everything).
Which is why it needs an anchor like a Apogee and some swarmer ships like Hyperions.
Of course, that's, like, the whole point of specialized builds. It sucks in 1v1 but it doesn't have to 1v1 because that can be left to the rest of your fleet.
You can also anchor it with a low-tech gunship, like something from the fourteenth.
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