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[Hiruma Kai]

I personally think of a Conquest as half missile ship.  A broad side is 2 large ballistic, 2 medium ballistic, and a medium energy (small energies tend towards PD duty in my builds).  Tracking missiles which, can be fired from any orientation, so 2 large and 2 medium missile mounts can be brought to bear - just as much as the ballistic compliment.

1066 base energy DPS is nice with dual Mjolnir out to 1440 range, and HACs add another 856 to shields out to 1280 range, for 68 OP and 1726 flux per second.  Although the flux per second could be converted to OP equivalent in terms of Stabilized shields (480->240 shield upkeep is worth 24 OP of vents, but Stabilized Shield is only 15 OP), and then another 50 OP for 500 flux/second vents, and another 20 OP for 150 flux/second from Flux Distributor.  So really, if you're looking at it from a flux neutral-ish point of view, those 4 ballistic weapons really cost 68 OP plus 85, or a net 153 OP cost.  If we look at in terms of damage windows, that's 19,222 shield damage in 10 seconds, assuming every shot hits.

For me, I consider the fact that dual Squalls against most shield heavy and PD inefficient enemies (high tech/Remnants fit the bill) in a 10 second window will do 20,000 shield damage out to 2,500 range for 0 flux, to be very attractive.  The 0 flux cost allows you to keep a 0-flux speed boost while putting hard flux on enemy shields, or alternatively, if timed right, will keep an enemy's shields up while you vent.  It is an investment of about 90 OP (40 OP for Squalls, 20 for ECCM, 30 for Expanded Missile racks), but for me that effectively doubles the shield burst DPS, even if it is limited to 232 seconds of continuous fire.  And at the point I've got 50 OP in ECCM and Expanded Missile racks, might as well throw on Harpoons in the mediums for just 20 OP more to help finish off smaller ships quickly.  8 Harpoons at once will give any flanking frigate or destroyer a bad day, and will even take a chunk out of an overloaded capital.  I'm more likely to leave the medium energy mounts empty than the medium missile mounts, especially if I'm running flux hungry Mjolnirs.

However, I consider the best feature of Squalls and Hurricanes is they shoot over allies.  Which means if I'm running tanky cruisers backed up by multiple AI run DPS Conquests, the Conquests are still firing something at the enemy when there's a line of friendly cruisers in the way.  I figure some DPS is better than no DPS in that situation.

[Thaago]

I've found good success on AI driven Conquests by putting a Squall and Hurricane in 1 weapon group and putting them in linked fire mode. It places high flux enemies in a no win situation and I've seen several times them try to keep their shields up vs the incoming Hurricane only to overload from the Squall and end up helpless. And as Hiruma Kai pointed out with dual Squalls, its a combo that will fly over allies which is quite valuable. I like the same missile combo for backline Legion XIV's as well and on Astrals.

[Salter]

Battlecruisers are fun ships to pilot.

Im not a terribly big fan of the conquest, but the odyssey can make a great wolfpack flagship. Since it can reach 10 speed with augmented drive field and has generous specs allowing it to keep up with a wolfpack, its capable of operating in one with relatively few issues. A couple of Hyperions to distract, Omens for PD & Tempests for long range support fire make it a very appealing option to give you some high-power options against cruisers and capitals. Its very much up to the individual skill of the pilot and what weapons you chose to bring with you though in my opinion it works best as the ship that flanks and hits its targets from the back with a mixture of missiles & beams but struggles with direct confrontation.

The Conquest can be strong though its not without its issues. Its relatively slow with mediocre armor & poor shields. Its got maneuvering jets and can turn on a dime easily as a result and some generous ballistics can give us quite a few weapons to play with at generous angles making it very capable of punching down destroyers and frigates trying to get past it, but it cant seem to punch up on its own without a large fleet to complement the action. Like the Odyssey and augmented drive fields, you can reach speed 10 on it that way, allowing you to pull it around for a high speed fleet if thats more your thing.

In general for the Odyssey, you want to try and sneak behind or beside a ship and nail it with HIL/Tac lance when its shields arent up or it has exposed armor and to avoid a confrontation on your other broadside. Its better to disengage than to play chicken with a ship that can outgun you.

The Conquest, in theory, can engage any ship at any range though ideally you use your speed, guns and missiles to hit them from the sides. It can win straight fights from the front, though for the ships own health its not recommended. Frigates and destroyers will generally back off or get shot down pretty easily. You really only have to worry about being outnumbered or flanked.

If I have any criticism about the two ships, is that both could do better with more OP and the Conquest could do with generally better shield and combat speed specs.

[zeno]

Odyssey was very tight on OP previously, but smods pretty much solved that problem.  Conquest was never really starved for OP since it got Ballistic Integration.  And now with smods I feel like it's one of the ships that's actually swimming in OP.  I can pretty much mount whatever I need and still have enough for hullmods.

[Salter]

Odyssey was very tight on OP previously, but smods pretty much solved that problem.  Conquest was never really starved for OP since it got Ballistic Integration.  And now with smods I feel like it's one of the ships that's actually swimming in OP.  I can pretty much mount whatever I need and still have enough for hullmods.

Conquest has alot of issues revolving around its sub-par defenses for a capital. If its speed and shields were mildly better, I could see the argument being made that it doesnt need an OP upgrade.

But as it is? You need three separate mods (ITU, EMR & ECCM) just to make the most of its weapon systems, choosing to ignore its pretty weak defensive stats otherwise. If its general profile became better to compensate for these weaknesses somewhat then it would be alot more fun to pilot.

[zeno]

ITU is a given for pretty much every capitol, Conquest isn't an outlier there.

EMR is kinda extraneous if you're maining a conquest as your flag ship, because why would you main a ship with so much missile power without Missile Specialization?

ECCM is needed for Hurricanes and Squalls.  The former is really more of a thing with gauss setup, where shield tank isn't as important so it goes down the list of priorities (maybe keep Accelerated Shields).  For builds that slugs it out with the enemy at 900 range, 2x Locust + 2x Breach is also extremely potent and don't need ECCM, and frees up OP for further shield mods.

But even if we say that you're running Hurricane/Squalls in a 900su build, you can still fit all those mods in and be flux neutral assuming you're only firing one side.  You just need to sacrifice some caps.
Builds need to have trade offs afterall, if your idea of OP balance is being able to pimp up every strength of a ship AND shore-up its weaknesses, then imo it gets pretty bloated.

[Salter]

My typical go-to conquest that works for me is Locust launchers in the front, the guns on both sides being Mjolnir cannons flanked by HVEL cannons. For the missile slots, typically something like a harpoon launcher and laser PD for the rest of the small energy slots, with maybe some graviton beams in the front mounts. The results positive in the hands of the AI anyways, since graviton will disable, the Mjolnir inflicts EMP damage on its opponent and helps with disabling and the HVEL's pop shields. Locust will keep fighters at bay, but will also provide covering fire to launch harpoons, hence the locust launchers are more or less dumbfire systems inserted to provide PD against fighters and covering fire for harpoons. With all the extra missile ammo you will have, you likely wont run out of missiles even in long battles unless you just set it to auto-fire and squander your ammo.

ECCM & EMR would allow you to consistently perform missile attacks frequently with tough missiles to keep them going to the target without being downed by PD, which is the reason I include it in a conquest. Having weapons on both sides helps prevent some flanking by frigates and destroyers, leaving its only real weakness being weak PD against missiles, if you even gave it any PD, though shield tanking missiles is good enough I suppose.

[Grievous69]

If I was a mod on this forum, I'd issue warnings to people who talk about symmetric Conquest builds.

[Igncom1]

You can ban me, but you can't unban my symmetrical conquest builds! (I need to use them because the AI can and will do something silly if I don't.)

[Salter]

If I was a mod on this forum, I'd issue warnings to people who talk about symmetric Conquest builds.

I would agree, but that would be a terrible waste of its integrated ballistics. It makes sense to at least milk as much out of it as you can and put something in there.

[BigBrainEnergy]

There are two types of people: symmetric conquesters and non-symmetric conquesters.

[bowman]

You can ban me, but you can't unban my symmetrical conquest builds! (I need to use them because the AI can and will do something silly if I don't.)

I don't recall having any issues with the AI handling asymmetrics poorly, at least recently. In fact I remember being pleasantly surprising by their Conq piloting on my last playthrough.

In regards to others: if I wanted missiles I'd put a Gryphon or Legion XIV in my fleet (which I do). Equipping 40 OP of missile + EMR + ECCM is a large OP investment and detracts from how I'm piloting it otherwise. You simply don't position the same way to make use of any of the large missiles as you do for broadside. The issue isn't the ability to flip around and fire so much as where and what you want to fight. Squalls might be useful, and I'll admit I haven't tried them on Conq since their aiming got buffed/fixed but even then their primary value is vs Cruiser/Cap and I've established that Caps aren't your primary targets in a Conq.

TL;DR Missiles are strong weapons but I don't bother equipping them on Conq because they fill roles which my loadout is not designed for. If I was doing Gauss I could easily see going both L missiles.

[/quote]
I would agree, but that would be a terrible waste of its integrated ballistics. It makes sense to at least milk as much out of it as you can and put something in there.
[/quote]

But you don't have to be symmetric to make use of HBI. That's why I put Devastators on the other side. Large-mount, 500 HE DPS so they annihilate anything unshielded. Sometimes I put an HMG in the medium slot if I'm fighting remnants to deal with the shields on fighters a little better.
The problem with symmetric loadouts is the Conq doesn't want to be in the middle of a fleet because, as established, its defenses are poor for its class (literally the worst shield in the game) and on top of that even though it does have amazing flux stats those still aren't enough to deal with 4x L + 4x M + incoming damage. You tend to half-kill a couple ships then flux out and die.

It feels like the thread has just devolved into a conq thread instead of OP's question lol, how does it always happen

[Salter]

But you don't have to be symmetric to make use of HBI. That's why I put Devastators on the other side. Large-mount, 500 HE DPS so they annihilate anything unshielded. Sometimes I put an HMG in the medium slot if I'm fighting remnants to deal with the shields on fighters a little better.
The problem with symmetric loadouts is the Conq doesn't want to be in the middle of a fleet because, as established, its defenses are poor for its class (literally the worst shield in the game) and on top of that even though it does have amazing flux stats those still aren't enough to deal with 4x L + 4x M + incoming damage. You tend to half-kill a couple ships then flux out and die.

It feels like the thread has just devolved into a conq thread instead of OP's question lol, how does it always happen

I though about devastators but figured that on the other hand, if taking emp shots on one side of the ship is unavoidable to whatever extenuating circumstance you are forced into requires switching to the other side, hitting maneuvering jets lets you flip around and engage with your undamaged broadside which will have all the convenient amenities you need to keep shooting.

[Serenitis]

If you turn any Conquests you find into a pile of supplies and scrap, is that symmetrical or non-symmetrical?
Asking a for a comrade.

[BigBrainEnergy]

If you turn any Conquests you find into a pile of supplies and scrap, is that symmetrical or non-symmetrical?
Asking a for a comrade.

Technically both. When you have none of a thing (in this case, conquests) then any statement about that thing is "true." It's called a vacuous truth. For example, let's say I don't own any hats. I could say "all my hats are green" and it would be true because there are no hats for which the statement does not apply. If you look at all the hats that I own (which is zero), none of them disprove the claim.

Just replace "hats" with "conquests" and "green" with symmetrical or asymmetrical.