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Author Topic: Legion is too underwhelming?  (Read 7122 times)

Sly

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #120 on: July 29, 2022, 04:27:55 PM »

I like the Legion. :)

It's a fun, lumbering Battlestar-style ship that does very well in fleet engagements. Fun to Captain and a good partner for your flagship, when appropriate. It's a

T H I C C   B O Y

so you can easily hide most any ship behind it. With mods and Officer skills it can really get the crap kicked out of it, too.

It's not particularly flashy in terms of sustained firepower, and absolutely requires SP on building in mods, but if you're not spending SP on your Capitals, do you even have a pulse?

An added bonus is that Alex hands out several you can find while exploring, so there's really no reason not to field one at some point.

It's just... fun. Not super competitive, but fun.
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FooF

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2022, 06:59:04 PM »

Legion XIV with a ton of a hull/armor skills and max missiles is one of my favorite ships to pilot. It’s absolutely insane the amount of Hammers it can spit but then I back it up with 2 Daggers left on Regroup so they just keep spitting Atropos at the target. Xyphos and Broadsword round it out with 5x HMG with Elite Point Defense and Vulcans for the rest. Burn in, dump a biblical amount of Kinetics on a target, linked fire Hammers (that I have 120 of) and just eliminate everything short of an Onslaught.

Double Cyclone might technically be better but the reload time is a lot longer too, even with Elite Missile Spec.
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vladokapuh

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #122 on: July 30, 2022, 12:07:45 AM »

Legion XIV with a ton of a hull/armor skills and max missiles is one of my favorite ships to pilot. It’s absolutely insane the amount of Hammers it can spit but then I back it up with 2 Daggers left on Regroup so they just keep spitting Atropos at the target. Xyphos and Broadsword round it out with 5x HMG with Elite Point Defense and Vulcans for the rest. Burn in, dump a biblical amount of Kinetics on a target, linked fire Hammers (that I have 120 of) and just eliminate everything short of an Onslaught.

Double Cyclone might technically be better but the reload time is a lot longer too, even with Elite Missile Spec.
Well the XIV one is great, and i think most complaints are about the normal version
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smithney

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #123 on: July 30, 2022, 03:48:24 AM »

Well the XIV one is great, and i think most complaints are about the normal version
Well, aren't we beating around the bush when changing the large ballistic mounts to missile ones could be the only change necessary? The XIVth BG version is still gonna keep its mod and paint to feel special, and it's not like the basic version needs the extra flux stats to fire the missiles.
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gG_pilot

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #124 on: July 30, 2022, 03:59:20 AM »

.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 04:04:31 AM by gG_pilot »
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gG_pilot

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #125 on: July 30, 2022, 04:02:29 AM »

Well the XIV one is great, and i think most complaints are about the normal version
... when changing the large ballistic mounts to missile ones could be the only change necessary?
several pages before I recommended:
add heavy ballistic build-in mod to Basic Legion vs XIV build-in mod with  rockets mounts  variants.
It seems balanced both  variants to me.
Ballistic variant vs Rocket variant
Then add to both versions :  faster by +15su
Legion is a bit less dmg/s output, it is intended. By design Legion is made as SUPPORT ship of Onslaught. So lets add a utility value to both versions like added 1500 Fuel transport capacity. (It is half of the Prometheus tanker for 10DP)

It turns Legion into Convoy Support Battle-cruiser : Fuel transporting armored battle carrier. Which means you could save a position of Dedicated fuel ship.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 04:26:46 AM by gG_pilot »
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bonerstorm

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #126 on: July 30, 2022, 09:34:29 AM »

Well the XIV one is great, and i think most complaints are about the normal version
Well, aren't we beating around the bush when changing the large ballistic mounts to missile ones could be the only change necessary? The XIVth BG version is still gonna keep its mod and paint to feel special, and it's not like the basic version needs the extra flux stats to fire the missiles.
Yes. Even the XIV is underwhelming at times, but at a bare ass minimum changing the kinetics to missiles would make the vanilla Legion suck less because there's no reason a ship with flux stats like that should be mounting large ballistics.
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Thaago

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #127 on: July 30, 2022, 09:49:01 AM »

That doesn't make much sense - the base Legion easily has the flux to mount 2 large ballistics, even without having any fleet or officer skills to increase it. If going for the 'cheap' large ballistics like Hellbores and/or Mk IXs, both of which are quite good weapons for their OP, the ship doesn't even need many vents to support them both. I often go for Mk IX + Mjolnir as my Legion combo, and Mjolnir's are silly flux intensive, but the ship uses it just fine. The Legion is just a bit short on OP for hullmods.
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FooF

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #128 on: July 30, 2022, 02:21:15 PM »

Right. I think where the Legion suffers is lack of OP for hullmods relative to the Onslaught. It has enough capacity to run its guns, as long as you don’t go overboard with the Medium mounts.

I usually avoid bombers on the Legion but Piranhas or Khopesh are budget options. I wish there was a way for them to engage while still under Regroup orders like Daggers, Longbows and Tridents. I tend to keep my fighters on Regroup and use them as extra guns. I don’t think Perditions fire under Regroup either. Basically any dumb fire. I think that would help the standard Legion a lot but would also affect other carriers.
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Goumindong

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #129 on: July 30, 2022, 03:44:55 PM »

Has anyone tried 4x xyphos, 2x mark IX(or storm Needler though you probably want ITU with that)  a bunch of typhoon torpedos or annihilators and no ITU. (Build in something else. Over 900 range the mark IX is pretty inaccurate anyway [especially without armored weapon mounts).

So you just turn your flux into kinetic damage while they have to keep their shields up or eat 8 ion beams and then you torpedo them\

Edit:

I mean i know that "SIM Onslaught" isn't exactly a test. But this thing, no officers, no S mods, no fleet skills:

5x Typhoon Reapers
2x Mark IX
4 x Light Autocannon
4x Xyphos
1x Heavy armor
1x armored weapon mounts
Not even full vents.

face tanks the sim onslaught and kills it with no hull damage when piloted by a player. You just burn up, turn the shields off before you overload and when the onslaught starts to get ionized from your Xyphos you volley him about 1.5 times.  No skills, nothing.

When piloted by an AI it wants to back off, then vent cycles and dies. Venting here is super bad because the Xyphos go to the front and die to fire. As is backing off because then you're out of range of their guns. Reckless or aggressive might help but this was raw mission refit testing. But the ship is still obviously quite strong. And Is only going to get strong with S mods and skills and fleet skills.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 04:10:21 PM by Goumindong »
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Amoebka

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #130 on: July 30, 2022, 07:54:19 PM »

I would much rather use rangefinder and autocannons than mark IX.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #131 on: July 30, 2022, 08:15:02 PM »

I would much rather use rangefinder and autocannons than mark IX.
What build exactly are you describing? Legion doesn't really have a ton of forward facing small slots for light auto canons(definitely not enough to match 2x Mark IX in DPS) and using medium slots for HACs loses missiles, plus, what are you going to but in the large ballistics instead? Legion also doesn't have a ton of flux to mount tons of guns.
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ILuvLegion

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #132 on: July 31, 2022, 06:50:39 AM »

I would much rather use rangefinder and autocannons than mark IX.
What build exactly are you describing? Legion doesn't really have a ton of forward facing small slots for light auto canons(definitely not enough to match 2x Mark IX in DPS) and using medium slots for HACs loses missiles, plus, what are you going to but in the large ballistics instead? Legion also doesn't have a ton of flux to mount tons of guns.
The Legion has four small mounts that converge forward, if I’m remembering correctly, which is not enough to match 2 mark IX’s with LACs. But if you went with 4 railguns instead you’d have the same DPS as 2 mark IX’s.

Also, maybe I’m totally wrong, but currently I see that regular Legion as basically an NPC only ship. I love the Legion, but I don’t generally want more than two in my fleet (maybe four max). That means that by end game I’m probably only going to be using 14th battlegroup versions anyway. Heck, I’m most games I’ve usually found one by midgame. Maybe if I got really unlucky with exploration I’d need to keep using a base one, but I’m not convinced that the current progression of using noticeably weaker base Legions until you find the rare/semi-unique 14th battlegroup Legions to replace them is an actual issue.
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Amoebka

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2022, 08:25:18 AM »

What build exactly are you describing? Legion doesn't really have a ton of forward facing small slots for light auto canons(definitely not enough to match 2x Mark IX in DPS) and using medium slots for HACs loses missiles, plus, what are you going to but in the large ballistics instead? Legion also doesn't have a ton of flux to mount tons of guns.
I've posted it earlier. Quad Xyphos, LACs with rangefinder and double Heph (or Mjolnir + Hellbore depending on the enemy fleet).
Legion has 6 small ballistics that can shoot forward, and it can also "broadside" with 4 smalls + 1 large on each flank.
Base dissipation is almost irrelevant for capitals. You can get 50-55 vents, +400 from ordinance expertise, and +150 from flux distributor.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Legion is too underwhelming?
« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2022, 09:16:34 AM »

Legion has 6 small ballistics that can shoot forward.
No, only 4 properly front-facing small mounts. The two on each side cannot shoot forward (wouldn't be able to hit something directly in front of you), unless I guess you turn slightly to get two mounts from one side which would kind of give you 6, but I don't think the AI will do that consistently.

Personally I also hate haephestus. I think it's one of the worst large weapons. I would rather have Mark IX and LAC with rangefinder, and then use missiles for hull/armor damage (or maybe even swap two xyphos for bombers or something).
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