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[Amoebka]

The second-last row of turrets has angle +-90 and arc 180. They can shoot forward, just not both at the same time unless the target is as wide as the Legion itself.

[Goumindong]

And the legion is pretty wide. Those two will miss an Onslaught in front of you with your shield up.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Well, it's time to revive this thread because I had an idea. Why not give the legion built-in ballistic rangefinder? It would encourage people to use the small mounts for something other than vulcans every time and it would help the base legion catch up because it's the only one with large ballistic mounts. It also makes it more viable to put ballistic weapons in the composite slots.

[TauCetiRedGuard]

Ballistic rangefinder doesn't affect ballistic weapons in composite slots, so it wouldn't encourage using the mediums for ballistics. It would still encourage using the small slots for non-pd weapons but the Legion's abysmal flux dissipation would really limit your options in this regard. My immediate thoughts on a loadout would be 2x Hellbore and 4x Railguns, but that already causes more than twice the Flux per second than the legion can dissipate. LDACs have near the same flux as railguns and worse range, legion is too slow to use DMG as anything other than point defence. Every other large ballistic option generates more flux than hellbores and cost more of the legions limited OP.

The problem with the legion isn't a lack of firepower its a lack of flux dissipation and OP, if either of these receives a buff legion would be a significantly stronger ship.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Ballistic rangefinder doesn't affect ballistic weapons in composite slots, so it wouldn't encourage using the mediums for ballistics. It would still encourage using the small slots for non-pd weapons but the Legion's abysmal flux dissipation would really limit your options in this regard. My immediate thoughts on a loadout would be 2x Hellbore and 4x Railguns, but that already causes more than twice the Flux per second than the legion can dissipate. LDACs have near the same flux as railguns and worse range, legion is too slow to use DMG as anything other than point defence. Every other large ballistic option generates more flux than hellbores and cost more of the legions limited OP.

The problem with the legion isn't a lack of firepower its a lack of flux dissipation and OP, if either of these receives a buff legion would be a significantly stronger ship.

Yeah that slipped my mind somehow.

I've found 2 hellbore + 4 railgun works extremely well with just 50 vents, or hellbore + heph with 50 vents + flux distributor + OE. People generally agree that the XIV variant works, but any buff to the base threatens to make the XIV too strong so I wanted to focus on something the base legion has that the other doesn't: better use of ballistic rangefinder. It may not be the right thing to do, I'm just putting it out there.

[Brainwright]

The problem with the Legion it's that it is constructed to account for both its firepower and the presence of fighter bays.

Every other carrier and frontline battleship is focused on its task.  You would probably need new mods to account for this half in, half-out stance.

[TauCetiRedGuard]

Yeah that slipped my mind somehow.

I've found 2 hellbore + 4 railgun works extremely well with just 50 vents, or hellbore + heph with 50 vents + flux distributor + OE. People generally agree that the XIV variant works, but any buff to the base threatens to make the XIV too strong so I wanted to focus on something the base legion has that the other doesn't: better use of ballistic rangefinder. It may not be the right thing to do, I'm just putting it out there.

What do you use for strike craft and hull mods? I assume for the discussion ballistic rangefinder counts as built in. 2 Hellbore + 4 railguns is 60 op and 50 vents brings that up to 110 of 260 used and that just covers the flux cost of the assumed weapons. That will leave you with 150 OP to fill out 5 medium composites and 4 small ballistics and 4 strike craft hangers + hull mods.
On the topic of the XIV variant the rangefinder's effect would be limited but 800 range heavy mortars would mean you could invest in more hull mods or strike craft so I'm not sure how that would balance out.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Yeah that slipped my mind somehow.

I've found 2 hellbore + 4 railgun works extremely well with just 50 vents, or hellbore + heph with 50 vents + flux distributor + OE. People generally agree that the XIV variant works, but any buff to the base threatens to make the XIV too strong so I wanted to focus on something the base legion has that the other doesn't: better use of ballistic rangefinder. It may not be the right thing to do, I'm just putting it out there.

What do you use for strike craft and hull mods? I assume for the discussion ballistic rangefinder counts as built in. 2 Hellbore + 4 railguns is 60 op and 50 vents brings that up to 110 of 260 used and that just covers the flux cost of the assumed weapons. That will leave you with 150 OP to fill out 5 medium composites and 4 small ballistics and 4 strike craft hangers + hull mods.
On the topic of the XIV variant the rangefinder's effect would be limited but 800 range heavy mortars would mean you could invest in more hull mods or strike craft so I'm not sure how that would balance out.

The XIV variant wouldn't get any bonus to mediums because it doesn't have any large ballistics.

You can fill out the composites with pilums and the remaining smalls with vulcans. Maybe a flak in the front composite. None of that taxes your flux much and leaves with op left over for hullmods/strike craft. Or you can go for cheaper strike craft and invest in heavier missiles, but that would be kinda weird when you can just get bombers with unlimited ammo.

[Drazan]

Main problem with the Legion is that it still cannot perform well either as a full carrier (lack of supporting system) or a combat carrier (abismal flux stats) so it simply doesnt worth to field it for 40dp instead of other options.
Now my proposal is to give it Heavy Ballistic Integration. I know i know already too many ship have that hullmod but listen. All capital ships with large ballistic slots should get it. It makes sense gameplay wise so you use the guns instead of massing hullmods. AND it makes perfect sense lore wise as BIG BAD ships are designed to have BIG BAD guns.
The legion should get HBI and 10-20 plusz OP netting in for 20-30 extra OP that you cant just spend on fighters and hullmods. So it would be encuraged to build it as a combat carrier as its lower flux stat is still preventing it to be a full brawler and using just mining pods.
Maybe give it one just one backward pointing medium or small ballistic slot for pd. It is just so anoying that anyone would desing a ship with such a glaring weakness.

With buffs like this it perhaps could be a meaningful choice to field it rather than the Onslaught.

[Igncom1]

I'm personally not convinced it really needs much if anything at all. Build it as a gunboat with attached interceptors, or build it as a carrier with guns, but asking for both is like asking for a wonder weapon that does it all.

To quote a current chide: "Skill issue." 

But that isn't a helpful thing to say. Honestly I find even my regular legions to be decent defensible carrier ships. No astrals, but nor should they be, and no onslaughts but again that's not their place.

I'll say that yes the Legion is no dominant capital ship, but if you can't make them work in your fleets then that isn't the ships fault.

Give it a 10-20 op boost and reassess. No need for anything dramatic.

[Drazan]

Again the problem is not that Legion is bad. I love this ship. The problem is that it has the same dp cost as an Onslaught. It is a good ship but not 40dp good.

[Thaago]

It just needs a good amount OP so that it can have more hullmods, nothing more.

It has enough flux to run its guns (easily - if going budget guns it doesn't even need to max its vents), it has good weapon types and mounts, and with the current skill system it's carrier component is boosted by an officer in a way that destroyers aren't going to be in the late game.

[Goumindong]

Ballistic rangefinder doesn't affect ballistic weapons in composite slots, so it wouldn't encourage using the mediums for ballistics. It would still encourage using the small slots for non-pd weapons but the Legion's abysmal flux dissipation would really limit your options in this regard. My immediate thoughts on a loadout would be 2x Hellbore and 4x Railguns, but that already causes more than twice the Flux per second than the legion can dissipate. LDACs have near the same flux as railguns and worse range, legion is too slow to use DMG as anything other than point defence. Every other large ballistic option generates more flux than hellbores and cost more of the legions limited OP.

The problem with the legion isn't a lack of firepower its a lack of flux dissipation and OP, if either of these receives a buff legion would be a significantly stronger ship.

You are making the mistake to think that you need to be flux neutral.

You’re an armor tanker. If you trade your flux for theirs at a 2 to 1 rate youre ahead of the game

This is why the double mark IX, 4x LAC, 5 typhoon, 4x Xyphos build works. Is it overfluxed? Hell yes. Does it matter? Nope.

The mistake is that you don’t have enough kinetic and are too focused on punching through armor. You gotta win the flux war before you can worry about armor. And you only need to punch through armor once.

[Amoebka]

You are making the mistake to think that you need to be flux neutral.
You’re an armor tanker. If you trade your flux for theirs at a 2 to 1 rate youre ahead of the game
This is why the double mark IX, 4x LAC, 5 typhoon, 4x Xyphos build works. Is it overfluxed? Hell yes. Does it matter? Nope.

You aren't thinking grand enough. Make it 2 hellbore, 4 rangefinder railguns, 4 HVDs, 1 mauler, 4 Xyphos.

[Goumindong]

Trading your flux for theirs at 50% does not help. And you still need HE damage at the end.

And like… you need raw DPS so 4 HVD just aren’t going to cut it. You have burn drive and the ion beams on your xyphos are only 1k range.