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Author Topic: Why isn't this game on steam early access?  (Read 8275 times)

Vocation

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Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« on: June 24, 2022, 02:59:57 PM »

Would most likely expand the player base and steam workshop would make mods so much easier to deal with. Plus more sales too.

This game is great. Another game kinda similar to it SPAZ is also really popular. I only heard of this game randomly on some forums or else I would have never found this masterpiece.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 03:01:32 PM by Vocation »
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Dri

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2022, 03:11:02 PM »

To be blunt, it's because Alex is very slow. He does great work, but the pace of new content updates is glacial.

He'd get roasted to hell and back for slow speed and "abandoning" the game.

Just look at other slow developers like Valheim and how much they've gotten roasted.
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Kwbr

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2022, 04:16:48 PM »

as midnight kitsune put it
Steam is brought up many times here and, IIRC, Alex has said that it will only happen when it is done or nearly so. You only get one shot at steam so you need to make it count.

i recommend doing a quick search for 'steam' on the forums if you want to read into it more
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Ruddygreat

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2022, 04:30:15 PM »

Would most likely expand the player base and steam workshop would make mods so much easier to deal with. Plus more sales too.

the workshop would be awful for mods due to automatic updates; the workshop has no method for preventing them (that i know of), and since even the smallest change could break a save you'd have a billion people complaining about dead saves with most mod updates, given how often those happen.
and the workshop kinda just sucks, the current system is imo just better than it, if you really need auto-updates go install SMOL or MOSS
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 03:52:37 AM by Ruddygreat »
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Salter

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2022, 05:49:28 PM »

the workshop would be awful for mods due to automatic updates; the workshop has no method for preventing them (that i know of), and since even the smallest change could break a save you'd have a billion people complaining avout dead saves with most mod updates, given how often those happen.
and the workshop kinda just sucks, the current system is imo just better than it, if you really need auto-updates go install SMOL or MOSS
To be fair its not like people would play it with that many mods as if it were skyrim, and they are not updated that often anyways.
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Kwbr

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2022, 03:26:25 AM »

To be fair its not like people would play it with that many mods as if it were skyrim, and they are not updated that often anyways.

i dunno, it'd still be extremely frustrating if an automatic update you didn't notice corrupted a save you'd spent a while on.
and you might not but im currently running somewhere in the realm of 120 mods. and thats not every mod i have downloaded
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Kakroom

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2022, 01:15:45 PM »

Would most likely expand the player base and steam workshop would make mods so much easier to deal with. Plus more sales too.

the workshop would be awful for mods due to automatic updates; the workshop has no method for preventing them (that i know of), and since even the smallest change could break a save you'd have a billion people complaining about dead saves with most mod updates, given how often those happen.
and the workshop kinda just sucks, the current system is imo just better than it, if you really need auto-updates go install SMOL or MOSS

Your first mistake was using the workshop
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Fartbox Wanderer

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2022, 03:30:45 PM »

I imagine this has probably been discussed to death in the past so I doubt I'll change any minds, but I don't think the points brought up so far are really valid.

"Current 'slow' pace of development is a roadblock"

There's lots of games in early access with slow updates and their playerbase only riots if it's an ongoing disaster, not a largely-complete game like Starsector that's just getting better. Frequent small updates are mostly an advertising tool to be honest. Every time you put out a patch, your game gets suggested in various locations throughout Steam. This even gets abused sometimes with developers putting out a """patch""" that says "The game is now 75% off!" and does little else. Players need to be periodically kept up-to-date so they know the game isn't abandoned, that's all. Alex already does this with the blog, and it could be mirrored to the Steam page. It's a non-issue.

If desired, this problem could be addressed by switching from the current "slow" monolithic update model to a faster, more incremental one. For most users, this would be desirable. It doesn't mean there can't still be big feature updates 6-18 months apart, but smaller bugfix updates and tweaks could come out more often and be more experimental, get earlier feedback, etc. I understand this seems like it would conflict with modding, but for two reasons it really doesn't.

First, most people who play games don't mod them, this is simply a fact. For most people, modding is irrelevant, so the vast majority of the playerbase will be unaffected. However, the most vocal and arguably most important customers often do mod their games, so their needs shouldn't be ignored.

The second reason is that Steam has infrastructure built-in to allow publishers to distribute multiple fixed versions of their game indefinitely. Mainstream players could remain on the main public branch which might get small updates every few months, while hardcore players can select a specific version and stick with it for the sake of mod compatibility. Recent examples are Resident Evil 2 and 3, which have a DX11 version available for people who don't want the new DX12 version. It's very easy for a customer to choose between the two (or more) versions available.

The default version of Starsector could be marked "Latest", with multiple "stable" versions also available. Or vice-versa, make the stable version the default and have an opt-in "beta" channel.

"Steam/Steam Workshop Am Bad%u2122"

Look at Rimworld for an example of why this isn't true. Mods can be distributed with version compatibility indicators and run in different ways depending on which version of the game they're being used with. A mod developer for Starsector could add a new codepath for compatibility with 0.96 when it comes out but leave the 0.95 code intact so people who prefer can remain on that version. And there is nothing at all preventing a mod developer from keeping non-Steam or non-current versions of their mods separately available on another site like Nexus or Github.

----------

If Starsector was on Steam it would sell many more copies. This influx of cash could make it possible for Alex to, for example, hire some of the better community modders, or talented external developers. This would help to alleviate the "glacial" development issue. Though, as someone who worked on a game in the past, I can understand why he might want to keep all development in-house.

Based on my near-universal experience with other people/companies who've had this same "I don't want my game/product in a public place even if it would make a lot more money" position, Alex might have other very good reasons he wants to keep Starsector obscure for the time being. It seems obvious to us players that it would be a huge seller on Steam, but it could present new risks that are best avoided.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 03:34:04 PM by Fartbox Wanderer »
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Jackundor

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2022, 04:13:50 AM »

I imagine this has probably been discussed to death in the past so I doubt I'll change any minds, but I don't think the points brought up so far are really valid.

"Current 'slow' pace of development is a roadblock"

There's lots of games in early access with slow updates and their playerbase only riots if it's an ongoing disaster, not a largely-complete game like Starsector that's just getting better. Frequent small updates are mostly an advertising tool to be honest. Every time you put out a patch, your game gets suggested in various locations throughout Steam. This even gets abused sometimes with developers putting out a """patch""" that says "The game is now 75% off!" and does little else. Players need to be periodically kept up-to-date so they know the game isn't abandoned, that's all. Alex already does this with the blog, and it could be mirrored to the Steam page. It's a non-issue.

If desired, this problem could be addressed by switching from the current "slow" monolithic update model to a faster, more incremental one. For most users, this would be desirable. It doesn't mean there can't still be big feature updates 6-18 months apart, but smaller bugfix updates and tweaks could come out more often and be more experimental, get earlier feedback, etc. I understand this seems like it would conflict with modding, but for two reasons it really doesn't.

First, most people who play games don't mod them, this is simply a fact. For most people, modding is irrelevant, so the vast majority of the playerbase will be unaffected. However, the most vocal and arguably most important customers often do mod their games, so their needs shouldn't be ignored.

The second reason is that Steam has infrastructure built-in to allow publishers to distribute multiple fixed versions of their game indefinitely. Mainstream players could remain on the main public branch which might get small updates every few months, while hardcore players can select a specific version and stick with it for the sake of mod compatibility. Recent examples are Resident Evil 2 and 3, which have a DX11 version available for people who don't want the new DX12 version. It's very easy for a customer to choose between the two (or more) versions available.

The default version of Starsector could be marked "Latest", with multiple "stable" versions also available. Or vice-versa, make the stable version the default and have an opt-in "beta" channel.

"Steam/Steam Workshop Am Bad%u2122"

Look at Rimworld for an example of why this isn't true. Mods can be distributed with version compatibility indicators and run in different ways depending on which version of the game they're being used with. A mod developer for Starsector could add a new codepath for compatibility with 0.96 when it comes out but leave the 0.95 code intact so people who prefer can remain on that version. And there is nothing at all preventing a mod developer from keeping non-Steam or non-current versions of their mods separately available on another site like Nexus or Github.

----------

If Starsector was on Steam it would sell many more copies. This influx of cash could make it possible for Alex to, for example, hire some of the better community modders, or talented external developers. This would help to alleviate the "glacial" development issue. Though, as someone who worked on a game in the past, I can understand why he might want to keep all development in-house.

Based on my near-universal experience with other people/companies who've had this same "I don't want my game/product in a public place even if it would make a lot more money" position, Alex might have other very good reasons he wants to keep Starsector obscure for the time being. It seems obvious to us players that it would be a huge seller on Steam, but it could present new risks that are best avoided.
1. Afaik, on the fractalsoftworks website you can download every version of starsector going back like a decade
2. And what if a mod update isn't just a compatability patch? what about changing content in such a way that it doesn't work with saves on the previous versions? then as soon as you push put the update it will break everybody's saves
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Euphytose

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2022, 10:30:46 AM »

SPAZ is the reason I know this game. The first SPAZ was absolutely amazing. The second one, at least for me, was a complete disaster. I wanted more, so I searched a bit and found Starsector.

SPAZ stands for Space Pirates and Zombies by the way, if you guys want to take a little break from Starsector.

SPAZ is easier for sure, and more "arcade".

As for why the game isn't on Steam yet, as others have said, it's because the development is really slow. Each update adds a ton of stuff, but they take a while.

I think I posted about this before, and said "the game is ready for EA", and I still think it is, but the issue are the updates. If they take too long, people will lose patience quickly, and the game will be rated poorly. You indeed only get one shot on Steam. If your game ends up with "mixed" reviews, it's game over.
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Fen

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2022, 03:43:04 AM »

2. And what if a mod update isn't just a compatability patch? what about changing content in such a way that it doesn't work with saves on the previous versions? then as soon as you push put the update it will break everybody's saves

Just on this note in particular; one mod for Stellaris, Gigastructural Engineering, does it quite well. When they update to a new major version that will break saves, they turn the current branch into a legacy one and make a new workshop entry.

Sadly, not many other mod developers follow their lead on this, and it is admittedly an annoying thing to have to do.
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Vocation

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2022, 04:19:16 AM »

Still wondering why this game not on steam... would have gifted it to so many people. A lot of people I recommended this game to didn't want to try it because of the weird launcher and website to download and get it, even if it was for free! Most people are used to game ecosystems such as Steam or Epic games stores.
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Ryan390

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2022, 08:53:32 AM »

Still wondering why this game not on steam... would have gifted it to so many people. A lot of people I recommended this game to didn't want to try it because of the weird launcher and website to download and get it, even if it was for free! Most people are used to game ecosystems such as Steam or Epic games stores.

It could be partly that Alex wants the main masses to experience the product in a finished state, giving the highest impact.
I'd imagine once the application reaches 1.0 'finished' - Alex will release on steam eventually then kick back and take a break.

I've no idea what comes after 1.0, but I'm not aware of any planned DLC sort of phase.
There may be periods of bug fixing / support for a while I'd imagine, but only one person knows what the plan is.

Only Alex can really put us out of our misery in terms of answers, if your lucky he will see these messages and might give a response for you.

In terms of smaller incremental releases, I think that ship has passed a long time ago, they just need to do whatever works best for them right now to get this game fully over the line.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 08:56:35 AM by Ryan390 »
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Supereor

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2022, 10:50:49 AM »

I disagree with the idea of this game's launch on Steam being its big time in the limelight.  IMO, this game has simply been in development for too long, had way too much attention put towards it, and had way too much polish put in it for the majority of people that would play this game to think of it as an exciting new release.  At this point, this game's launch on Steam would be much more like Cosmoteer's or Dwarf Fortress's launches, where many people just went "awesome, this game is on Steam now."  TotalBiscuit's video on this game a decade ago already sort of broke it out of the realm of pure obscurity, but SsethTzeentach's video 3 years ago sealed it and made this game a well-known title among games with similar audiences like RimWorld, Kenshi, Dwarf Fortress, or Factorio.  Practically, this game released years ago and people perceive new major updates more like Terraria's free major content updates than the game taking forever to finish.  Alex and the other developers have simply built a game that, after years of polish and development, doesn't need Steam to have a degree of success--only the developers can say whether or not this game is successful--and have an audience.  Releasing this game on Steam would just be a nicety at this point.
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TJJ

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Re: Why isn't this game on steam early access?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2022, 11:11:19 AM »

Epic exclusivity deal incoming  ;)
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