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Author Topic: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?  (Read 1378 times)

Kanjejou

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fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« on: June 11, 2022, 08:10:14 AM »

Do fixed guns get any buff? because I feel like a lot of fixed gun design on frigate and estroyer suffer from having fixed guns like:

Muskipper MK2, Brawler and Wolf,

Hammerhead(saved by its module), Sunder,

Apoge, Aurora, Falcon and Eagle, Dominator

and to a lesser extent the Onslaught twin energy canon

all struggle abit to make their fixed gun really interesting even when its medium or large slots because they don't have enough flux and capacitor anyway to use such guns reliably thus make those fixed gun a bit of a OP waste


but since the gun are fixed a lot of space isnt used for the turret the rotation rings ect... why not make those guns a bit less flux intensiv since the ship is build around those medium/large slots, or give them increased range, thus brawler won't be so pushed into using SO
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Amoebka

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2022, 08:20:37 AM »

They get 50% lower recoil, that's it.
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Kanjejou

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2022, 08:23:30 AM »

That a bit weak sinc e alot of wepaons doint have much spread anyway...
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Grievous69

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2022, 08:42:34 AM »

Potential buff to Wolf, make the hardpoint a turret? It's not like it gets anything from lower recoil.
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Kanjejou

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2022, 09:28:44 AM »

I like the fact that often those fixed medium and large gun are a way to "upgun" the ship but with no extra OP or bonus stats its pretty hard to use them effectively

Manticore is a upgunned ship and even if it struggle in the flux/capacitor departement it get extra range thus stay relevant after early game
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Megas

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2022, 10:45:41 AM »

I want a Wolf that can support (have flux neutrality with) a hard flux medium energy weapon.  It is very hard or almost impossible to be flux neutral with a normal Pulse Laser.  Wolf should be more like a Glimmer or have its DP cost lowered to 4.

As for OP, lower recoil is good for autocannons.  For medium mounts, HAC has more range than Arbalest or Heavy Needler but its inaccuracy hurts.  For large mounts, Gauss is a specialist sniper weapon, and Storm Needler has terrible range, which leaves Mark IX as the only workhorse option with sufficient range, but accuracy without recoil reduction is terrible.  With maximum recoil reduction, Mark IX is a solid assault weapon.  HE ballistics that are normally inaccurate benefit too.
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Alex

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2022, 10:58:57 AM »

(They also have twice the hitpoints for purposes of getting disabled!)
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Grievous69

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2022, 12:01:33 PM »

(They also have twice the hitpoints for purposes of getting disabled!)
This is the one thing in game that gets mentioned here on forums and I always forget it's a thing when playing. Non that it would change how I play but still.
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Kanjejou

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2022, 03:19:36 PM »

(They also have twice the hitpoints for purposes of getting disabled!)

by the way how much HP does a weapon slot have??
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2022, 08:13:25 PM »

(They also have twice the hitpoints for purposes of getting disabled!)
This is the one thing in game that gets mentioned here on forums and I always forget it's a thing when playing. Non that it would change how I play but still.
I guess it can be useful if you plan to shield shunt?
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Thaago

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2022, 11:26:36 PM »

Weapon HP is always useful, it just isn't as noticeable an effect as the recoil reduction.

As to the OP, most of those ships can fire their weapons effectively. The plasma cannon as a large energy on non-SO sunders/apogees is flux hungry enough to be tough, but the other large energies all work. Dominators can sometimes run into trouble depending on their medium and small mounts (it just has lots of gun slots), but it has enough to run 2 larges. Most of the others run their up-sized guns just fine.

And then there's the Wolf. A full 100 extra base flux would bring it more in line with its weapon slots and still leave it with its current design weaknesses (no kinetic weapon + fixed narrow shield + paper armor and hull + poor point defense is just a brutally bad combination). 100 extra flux + flux distributor would still leave the ship overfluxed by a single pulse laser and stressed when using its small slots for point defense, but it would at least make it so the ship isn't outfluxed by non-high tech ships with lower deployment costs! Its a useful early game anti-pirate ship thanks to its decent speed and ability to mount twin swarmers + an ion cannon, but its obsolete the instant enemy fighters, even talons, hit the field. If a Kite had 2 ballistic slots instead of 1 they would be very close to outclassing Wolves.
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Megas

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2022, 04:19:02 AM »

Weapon hp is a big deal against Ordos.  Almost every ship in an Ordos fleet has elite Target Analysis, which makes any hit almost like EMP.  I consider Impact Mitigation almost must-have just for the extra weapon hp.  Then, either Armored Turret Mounts and/or Solar Shielding.  I guess Damage Control plus Automated Repair Unit for very fast repair times might work instead too.


And then there's the Wolf. A full 100 extra base flux would bring it more in line with its weapon slots and still leave it with its current design weaknesses (no kinetic weapon + fixed narrow shield + paper armor and hull + poor point defense
This is a case where I want an LG kinetic blaster on it... except it cannot support the weapon.  400 flux/sec is more than Pulse Laser, and Wolf cannot support that.  The best I can do with it is two ePD+IPDAI IR PLs.  That is a better Pulse Laser substitute with more range and 0.8 efficiency.

My weapon loadout for Wolf is Ion Pulser (hardpoint), two IR PLs (side turrets), and burst PD (center turret).  I use a similar loadout for Glimmer.  Ion Pulser is the finisher.  Main attack weapon is the IR PLs.  The ships have ePD+IPDAI to make IR PL good enough to use.  ePD+IPDAI IR PL is better than any medium energy weapon if the ship has enough of them.  More range than medium energy bolt weapons and 0.8 efficiency? Yes, please!

For Wolf, burst PD is decent enough PD, and does not tax flux much, but it is expensive for its OP budget, especially with two.

I miss Wolf's omni-shield.  If it had fixed shield, I hoped it would have a bigger shield, but Wolf has been nerfed from what it used to be.  Glimmer feels more like the old Wolf, but with HEF instead of skimmer.

Anytime I want Wolf, and I have automated ships, I use Glimmer instead.  Glimmer is better than Wolf in almost every way for the same DP cost.

but its obsolete the instant enemy fighters, even talons, hit the field. If a Kite had 2 ballistic slots instead of 1 they would be very close to outclassing Wolves.
Wolf is obsolete the moment any shielded frigate hits the field.  Any of the 4 DP frigates with shields and ballistics will kill Wolf in a duel if Wolf tries to use hard-flux energy weapons (and even beams is a slow kill at best), or at least win through PPT timeout if a stalemate otherwise.  (They have 240 PPT over Wolf's 180 PPT).
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Hatter

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2022, 09:43:11 AM »

Going off the wiki so someone shout at me if the numbers are wrong:
Wolf has poor flux dissipation for a high-tech frigate at 150. A Lasher has 140, costs 20% less DP, and uses more efficient ballistics. Brawler is the same cost and has 250 dissipation, 30% more shield health and, 200% more armor. Wolf's big advantage is its mobility and ability to out speed pretty much any other ship at 150 speed + phase skimmer, which is countered by carriers and bigger ships range. I think Wolf's dissipation can be buffed without it becoming overwhelming, as it still has poor defenses.
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Thaago

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2022, 10:46:38 AM »

Thats pretty much my opinion as well Hatter. Wolves do have good mobility, especially with Unstable Injector, and can harass/double team isolated enemies pretty effectively. They struggle vs shields, but that's an easy problem to fix as the player because you can pair them up with something carrying kinetics - a Kite with a single autocannon or a railgun for the H variant goes really well.

Its just that anomalously low flux! (Plus narrow forward shields with energy pd and very low armor/hull.)
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Shinr

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Re: fixed weapons ships any beneficial effect?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2022, 11:20:38 AM »

Since the Wolf is the topic right now:

If you were a dev, what would you change about the Hegemony variant to make it more than a cosmetic recolor?
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