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Author Topic: Help with colonizing gameplay?  (Read 1711 times)

PotatoFarmer1

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Help with colonizing gameplay?
« on: May 16, 2022, 02:31:55 AM »

Hi.
So after blasting bounties for 30 hours on my current save I've decided to settle down and start a family.
I didn't really know what I am doing so I settled 2 very nearly identical volcanic worlds at the same time, in a system relatively close to the core worlds that also had a gate and a bunch of remnant in it. Both worlds had a hazard rating of 250% and had +3 rare ore and +2 normal ore. I am using mods and one of the modded buildings is a structure called the "centralization bureau" that basically gives bonus to money made the more identical industries there are in a system.

So I figured I would start of with 2 identical builds on both planets and use the centralization structure to make even more profits from it but its been years and my colonies have nearly bankrupted me. Both are still size 1 and without hazard pay lose 7% growth per month and make a whopping 2-5k credits profit...

So basically I have 2 questions. First: while I am faffing about on the other side of the sector does the game simulate all trade fleets AND all active hostiles in the system, even when you are nowhere near?? If so can this effect the accessibility figure of the colony? I left a remnant nexus alive in the system near an asteroid belt because I figured it would be nice to farm some beta cores while I was there and also I am working on the prism freeport missions so I was curious if it was possible to neutral or even positive rep with the robits would they patrol the system and basically help defend against the evil Hegemony inspection fleets but now I am starting to suspect that they may be randomly attacking the little trade convoys and also I am not really sure but I've seen other factions send trade fleets to buy and sell stuff on planets that are not of their faction so basically if I was to befriend the remnants would they still attack incoming other faction trade convoys? The reason I suspect they are doing this is that despite both of my planets being exactly identical and one orbiting the star like 10au further than the other somehow one has a -10% accessibility penalty due to "hostilities with other factions" and the other does not even though I am at least neutral with all other factions except Luddic Path, Pirates, and Remnants. Basically the colonies are so bad that I haven't seen a single pirate anywhere near and the 'Path thinks that my colonies are so sh*t they don't even sleeper cell me :*(

There is no way but basically my question is; does the game simulate all fleets in all systems even when you are on the exact opposite side of the map? And if it does, does it simulate the economy actually literally i.e. every unit of ore mined needs to be accounted for when shipping between planets to fulfill market needs? I always figured there must be some level of abstraction and that trade fleets where just spawned every once in a while for show but I've been waiting for 3 years for a shipment of VIC revitalizers to arrive for one of my structures and the demand is maximum at 3 and it hasn't been fulfilled even once despite the colony on paper having an accessibility of 70%. Could it be possible that the swarms of remnant ships in the system are blowing up any incoming trade traffic? If the game is simulating all fleets all the time PLUS the whole economy fairly then how does my CPU not explode??? Should I kill off all the remnants?

And my second question is about colonies more generally. Basically I saw a youtube video much later when I was trying to figure out why my colonies bad and there the guy basically said that the number of units of something produced is actually not linear, they are representing orders of magnitude of production, and more interestingly that they can service infinite demand at or below that production level i.e. 7 metal mining can theoretically service planets with 1,1,4,6,7,7,7 demand. Is there a difference between "can service demand" and "will have enough material to service all possible demand"? So basically my question is; is my idea of having 2 planets with exactly identical industries and production levels kinda pointless? Since from what I understand supply of the materials is (basically) infinite right? and if a trade fleet came to trade with me then they are already coming to the system so the second identical planet in the system is actually pointless and nothing but expense? So does this mean that generally the most efficient layout of your colonies is to have a max output max accessibility for one of every possible export? So if you already hypothetically had a planet with 100% access and 10 common and rare ore production then there is literally no point in settling a different planet that might have +2 +2 instead of +3 +3 bonuses? Also is there any benefit to having input demands met for an industry from production on planet? or in system? or does it not matter if the demand is met in faction but from a colony literally on the other side of the map??

Also while I am at it: what effect exactly does hazard rating have on the colony? I thought it just made operational expenses higher but does it influence profitability in any other ways? And is there any benefit to having all of your colonies in the same system? Do they have the potential to produce more patrols and thus make the system more safe from pirates and the hegemony? And if so is it worth colonizing a lower quality planet in the system just to stick military installations on it to defend the higher quality planets? Is there any benefit to colonizing systems that are close to each other or does it not matter if you colonize systems that are very far from each other?

Sorry for the wall of text! Despite considering myself as something of an expert on combat I am beyond befuddled at how to make good colonies in this game! Any help would be appreciated!
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Nimiety

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Re: Help with colonizing gameplay?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2022, 04:28:30 AM »

Trade fleets are just for show, they are generated when you get close to them. Leaving remnants or pirates in your system can cause the 'trade fleets disrupted' modifier though, so best to take care of them.

7 production can fulfill 7 demand everywhere in the sector, and every demand for lower too. The only reason it wouldn't is if poor access on the producing market is limiting exports or poor access on the demand market is limiting imports, or a shortage has been created through the aforementioned trade fleet disruption.

Multiple same industries just increases your market share which is your 'cut' of the global total demand (this cut is the money your exports then generate). Increasing access, decreasing access on competing markets, or blowing those markets up are also ways to increase your cut. If you check the market on ores though, you'll see its oversaturated as *** and not worth that much anyway because there are only a few refineries creating demand. Fuel and food, though, and organics or refined metals... big markets, not too many competitors.

Location doesn't matter for in-faction import, as long as the access on the colony is high enough. If you want more security on your planets then multiple in the same system makes sense as they will each launch patrols.

Hazard rating affects upkeep cost and also affects immigration/pop growth. Hazard pay is calculated based on hazard rating, too. More hazard = greater pay to convince people to come.

If you want easy, safe credits, then settle worlds you can stick farming on since the Luddic Church is cool with people muscling in on their food production they way other factions really aren't. If you want shipbuilding, find a system with a 150% barren airless world (plus some other planets to stick military bases on) and stick refineries/fuel/heavy industry on it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 05:52:39 AM by Nimiety »
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PotatoFarmer1

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Re: Help with colonizing gameplay?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2022, 06:53:12 AM »

Thanks for the reply @Nimiety !

Ok so I will kill the remnants then. Weird that I didn't see the "trade fleet disrupted" modifier on the colony but it still has the accessibility penalty when the other one doesn't. There must be another reason then that I am not seeing.

Ok so 7 production can service all 7 demand and below in the system, but market share is limited? How exactly is market share calculated? Like I understand that if I blow up every other refinery in the sector I would by default have 100% market share, but if I build another producer on an already oversaturated market - like having a 7 ore producer and adding another 7 ore producer - would that increase my market share and if yes then how is it calculated? Like basically outside of sabotaging or eliminating my competition how can I figure out what is the minimum/maximum market share I can make? 

And also from what you have said it seems that ore is really not super profitable because the market is oversaturated, so does this mean I should be building refineries on high habitability worlds and just letting the npc factions service my ore demand? Is there really no penalty to having for example 1 mining world that produces 7 ores that services like 5 refinery worlds that have 7 ore demand? If I don't care about competing for market share and just want the inputs serviced for my more profitable refinery planets would there be no down sides to just have one super ore producing world in terms of running into an ore mining bottleneck? It's kinda difficult for me to conceptually wrap my head around the fact that market share is finite but production seems to be infinite and I am not sure how in-faction trading factors into this.

Also logically it seems that having refineries on the planets that mine the raw materials should be waaaaay more profitable than shipping them off planet because you wont have to pay for the spaceships or fuel for transport but I guess in this game it doesn't matter as long as the faction is the same and has enough accessibility to handle the volume?

Ok so food is the easiest and safest because the Church actually wants everyone to be living an idyllic agrarian lifestyle but all other production is dangerous because the other factions will see you as muscling in on their market share. I've noticed this in a game a few years ago when I built a salvage yard on one of my planets and one of the resources that was being salvaged from destroyed ships was fuel so some faction started to send more ships to attack me because I was producing too much fuel but as I killed more of their ships in system my fuel production went up so they got angrier and sent more ships and the cycle continued until I ended up in total war. That was a fun game but I had no Idea what I was doing.

Barren airless worlds I'm guessing are because of the certain items you can find that increase fuel production but require no atmosphere if I remember correctly? Also industry causes pollution (I learned that the hard way lol) so it shouldn't be put on your farming planet right?

Well thank you for your helpful explanation. I think I am unfortunately going to shut down those 2 colonies. Sucks that I picked the worse resource to try to focus on lol.

Also since the trade fleets are not simulated as I thought they where, any idea if neutral or friendly factions can help defend against hostile raids if they have bases/planets in your system? Am I wasting time trying to get friendly with the remnants? I haven't finished the questline yet I don't know what happens at the end so no spoilers please!
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Nimiety

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Re: Help with colonizing gameplay?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2022, 07:38:29 AM »

Its been a while since I checked, but I am pretty sure market share is calculated by the number of product (say, 7 fuel) multiplied by access (say, 100%). This is compared against the AIs product and access. Say if Sindria was producing the same 7 fuel at 200% access and all the other fuel producers had been wiped out, your 7 fuel at 100% would represent 33% of the market. And that market is big because every planet needs fuel (req for spaceport). Compare to the dozen planets mining ores in the core worlds and the 4 planets with refineries.

The tooltip for ores telling of 'untold riches' is really misleading :p

The only benefit of local production (same planet) is that pirates can't disrupt the trade fleets and cause shortages and declaring war/reducing access won't either (access gets heavily reduced when war is declared).

Market size used to imcrease as players built colonies, but these days it doesn't. You have Nexerelin installed though, so colonies you donate to a faction (incl your own) will increase market size.

Barren airless is for that exact reason, yeah, the fuel and refinery items both want airless worlds. Heavy industry doesn't care (it just pollutes habitable worlds) but you might as well stick it there for logistical reasons: Fuel refinery means the local stockpile of fuel will be massive. Heavy industry means the supplies, machinery and weapons supply will be massive as well.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 08:44:15 AM by Nimiety »
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PotatoFarmer1

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Re: Help with colonizing gameplay?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2022, 11:28:29 AM »

Thanks for all the delicious info Nimiety!

I didn't realize that there was a benefit to having over 100% accessibility!

Yeah that tooltip really messed me up lol. "untold debts" more like!

If someone declares war on me would that be a flat decrease to accessibility to all of my worlds? Even if hypothetically all my planets where in the same system they would start having difficulty trading with each other?

I am playing as my own faction I don't think I can donate to myself... I have to double check though.

So basically right now I am looking for a system with a gate nearby (or ideally in the system), that has a good farming world so that I can make my first colony profitable and relatively safe without attracting too much attention to my faction, and a low hazard rating no atmosphere world that I can turn into my industrial hub. Any other planets that could be useful for minerals or other stuff in the system would be a bonus. As it so happens I just found a tip on the location of the first coronal hypershunt so I am going to go explore that area of space next!

Thanks again for helping to demystify some of this. This game is awesome!



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squished_fish

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Re: Help with colonizing gameplay?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2022, 10:44:09 AM »

Thanks for all the delicious info Nimiety!

I didn't realize that there was a benefit to having over 100% accessibility!

Yeah that tooltip really messed me up lol. "untold debts" more like!

If someone declares war on me would that be a flat decrease to accessibility to all of my worlds? Even if hypothetically all my planets where in the same system they would start having difficulty trading with each other?

I am playing as my own faction I don't think I can donate to myself... I have to double check though.

So basically right now I am looking for a system with a gate nearby (or ideally in the system), that has a good farming world so that I can make my first colony profitable and relatively safe without attracting too much attention to my faction, and a low hazard rating no atmosphere world that I can turn into my industrial hub. Any other planets that could be useful for minerals or other stuff in the system would be a bonus. As it so happens I just found a tip on the location of the first coronal hypershunt so I am going to go explore that area of space next!

Thanks again for helping to demystify some of this. This game is awesome!
The hostile faction accessibility penalty is a flat per-faction penalty, yes. However, it shouldn’t really affect your in-house supplies at all - the limits for shipping between your own colonies are massively larger than the limits for trading to other factions. Also, you may want to save your game before you explore a hypershunt.
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