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[Megas]

League has Drovers for destroyer missile boats. Not a line ship, but it fits the doctrine. Would be cool to have a cheap option for large missiles, but the pirate Venture somewhat fits the niche. Although at 14 dp you are probably better off with Ramparts.

Drover cannot use anything bigger than small missiles, making them no better than other warships without bigger mounts for the League to use their new bigger DEMs.

Be nice if there was something between Vigilance and Gryphon/Champion the League can use to mount medium+ DEMs, since they do not have unlimited ship selection like a late-game player.

[Twilight Sentinel]

The problem I was running into with trying to think of a design was trying to get something that had medium missiles while also working as an alternative to the hammerhead for more variety in line destroyers.  That's tough without making it a midline manticore, even if you don't give it a large weapon slot.

Edit: I suppose the problem comes in if you start from the point of making a tanky ship with medium missiles, rather than something else that has that incidentally.  A destroyer sized ship with a special power on par with the Scarab or Hyperion for uniqueness and interesting gameplay that happens to be fairly tanky with medium missiles sounds a lot less like it steps on the toes of the Manticore.

[Great Wound]

Hey Alex,

Got to echo the sentiment of the d-mod and OP reduction on the Lions Guards, it feels like a blanket nerf. But please, don't change it, I'm planning on appending Sindrian Shield Focusing on all theirs ships so there's still a solid reason to cap 'n res.

Also, and this is extra cheeky, if you have any alternative icons for the Sindrians "Special Modifications" could you leave them in the game so I can use them, your art is far superior to mine.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[Embolism]

Kinda running out of cool light-based names tbh, so something to do with being a pinnacle felt close-enough.

Maybe Spectrum? Candescent? Chroma? I'm totally not reading Wikipedia for ideas.

Hmm, maybe? We've already got the Manticore, though; I'm generally hesitant to have "the same thing, different tech level" so it'd have to be significantly different.

What about a PL version of the Manticore that has ECCM instead of ballistic rangefinder and fast missile racks as its system?

[Drazan]

League has Drovers for destroyer missile boats. Not a line ship, but it fits the doctrine. Would be cool to have a cheap option for large missiles, but the pirate Venture somewhat fits the niche. Although at 14 dp you are probably better off with Ramparts.

Drover cannot use anything bigger than small missiles, making them no better than other warships without bigger mounts for the League to use their new bigger DEMs.

Be nice if there was something between Vigilance and Gryphon/Champion the League can use to mount medium+ DEMs, since they do not have unlimited ship selection like a late-game player.

Change herons M mount to missile. Then it can support its fighters from range, we have more missile options and a bit of inclinment to use carriers

[Megas]

Change herons M mount to missile. Then it can support its fighters from range, we have more missile options and a bit of inclinment to use carriers

Heron's medium mount is a universal and can use any medium weapon.

Heron is a cruiser, and costs 20 DP like Gryphon.

But it would be nice if there was a midline destroyer for the Persean League that has at least a medium missile mount (because the League does not use ships that are not midline, unlike the player).  Manticore and Shrike do not count because they are not midline.

[DaShiv]

I will add though that in my experience, the Scintilla is currently the rarest of the Remnant ships - it's quite common to run into big full-strength Ordos (max strength high danger) without any Scintillas at all. For example, looking at the largest 7 Ordos in a high danger system in my current run, here are their fleet compositions:

Hmm, weird - some quick poking around just now, I'm not seeing that, so I'm tempted to say it's just luck - no-Scintilla fleets are certainly possible, but also not predominant, and plenty appear to have a bunch of them. I was specifically looking at higher-end Remnant bounty Ordos.

DaShiv is right!  I just checked a red system, and out of eleven full-sized Ordos fleets, only two of them have Scintillas.  At least one Radiant were in most of the fleets, and several Brilliants, Fulgents, and frigates were in all of them.  Brilliants would be the primary source of fighter LPC drops.

Thanks for confirming my experiences. If others are still also seeing the same thing after the patch drops, then I'm sure there'll be a raft of immediate complaints about how annoying it is to find Remnant LPC's post-patch. As it is right now, it seems like the prevalence of Brilliants is indeed masking the Remnant LPC loot issue.

[Histidine]

Given their transition from actual elites to glorified clowns, I presume LG is getting their cheaty 5-5-1 doctrine nerfed (possibly nerfed badly)?

Wow Hegemony thinks Gigacannon is so bad it's better to let Andrada have it

Effective energy anti-shield is a real game changer for high-tech and at least some midline ships. If it's at all common, Pulse Laser will be left even further out in the cold. Might the PLaser get some changes at some point, like IRPL did?

'Apex' stealing yet another name from Ship and Weapon Pack breaking the name theme was the one thing that annoyed me when I read the blogpost. I suppose if anyone asks, they can get pointed to dictionary.com where it mentions 'solar apex', but still...
Random bad ideas my sleepy brain generated:
- Arise (clearer reference to the sun, plus haha JRPG title reference)
- Solstice
- Parhelion (I decided I like this one the most, references its drones)

[Vanshilar]

'Apex' stealing yet another name from Ship and Weapon Pack breaking the name theme was the one thing that annoyed me when I read the blogpost. I suppose if anyone asks, they can get pointed to dictionary.com where it mentions 'solar apex', but still...
Random bad ideas my sleepy brain generated:
- Arise (clearer reference to the sun, plus haha JRPG title reference)
- Solstice
- Parhelion (I decided I like this one the most, references its drones)

For whatever reason, I'm partial to the words "coruscate" and "prismatic", in referring to dazzlingly bright light.

[JollyJoker]

Can't wait for this release
When we can expect it 

[Hiruma Kai]

'Apex' stealing yet another name from Ship and Weapon Pack breaking the name theme was the one thing that annoyed me when I read the blogpost. I suppose if anyone asks, they can get pointed to dictionary.com where it mentions 'solar apex', but still...
Random bad ideas my sleepy brain generated:
- Arise (clearer reference to the sun, plus haha JRPG title reference)
- Solstice
- Parhelion (I decided I like this one the most, references its drones)

For whatever reason, I'm partial to the words "coruscate" and "prismatic", in referring to dazzlingly bright light.

I'd be kinda of partial to Prism class droneship or Prismatic class droneship, as dispersion prisms spatially separate white light into it's different component wavelengths, where as this new drone ship splits into terminator drones in some sense.  I suppose Dispersion class droneship might also work.  Other optical phenomena related names might include Refraction and Focus.

[Megas]

Effective energy anti-shield is a real game changer for high-tech and at least some midline ships. If it's at all common, Pulse Laser will be left even further out in the cold. Might the PLaser get some changes at some point, like IRPL did?

My thoughts too, except it does not need to be common as long as it can be farmed like Remnant loot from Ordos.  Assuming that kinetic blaster is optimal, if the player can farm it, he will.  If it means killing lots of Lion's Guard fleets, expect many players to treat Askonia like a red Ordos system to farm goodies from and Diktat as a pinata faction to mug just like Remnants (with relations at -100).

Pulse laser has 600 range and 1.0 efficiency.  Not terrible but not great either.  What kind of hurts it is the option for elite PD + IPDAI for IR Pulse Laser.  If a ship has all of that, it has more range than any non-beam medium energy weapon and 0.8 efficiency (and it is effective enough PD on the side too).  Since ships tend to have more mounts than dissipation can support, I sometimes put IR Pulse Laser in medium energy mounts because of superior range and efficiency, and there are often (more than) enough mounts to add more guns to make up for IR PL's lack of DPS.

Pulse Laser is something to use if the ship lacks elite PD or the OP to afford IPDAI, but elite PD is so good (because of +200 range) that if I pick Point Defense for an officer, it is almost guaranteed to be the one skill to be made elite because it is so high impact.

[Delta_of_Isaire]

> Energy-damage missiles (looking at Gorgon, but also Hydra) are not finishers - they are openers. It's either free hard-flux on the enemies' shields, or a gash in their armor, particularly with how PD-resistant these missiles are.

I could see that, but it *is* also soft-flux damage, so you'd really have to make sure to overwhelm.

Oh it's soft-flux beam damage? Yeah that would straighten out the wrinkle

Damn, you're right.  It hadn't clicked for me that the Manticore was as tanky as it is, since I always thought it was more like a low tech Sunder.  So you can add that to the list of line ships then.  I understand now why it's a lot harder to come up with good midline destroyers that don't step on its toes.

Wasn't the point of asking for missile destroyer was something the League can use for their new missiles, since they are exclusively midline (i.e., Manticore not an option for them)?

Yep, PL lacks a Destroyer with medium missile capability, because they use exclusively Midline ships. An unfortunate restriction given the existence of Manticore and Shrike. Alternatively the Falcon (P) would also be perfect for the League. For the player's fleet there's also the Fulgent and Scintilla that have medium missile slots. And, of course, an honorable mention to the Gemini. So there is a lot of competition for a potential new missile destroyer, which makes designing it quite difficult. Particularly with "same thing - different tech level" being off the table (for good reason).

[Amoebka]

Yep, PL lacks a Destroyer with medium missile capability, because they use exclusively Midline ships.

an honorable mention to the Gemini

Gemini is a midline destroyer with medium missile capability though.

[Megas]

Yep, PL lacks a Destroyer with medium missile capability, because they use exclusively Midline ships. An unfortunate restriction given the existence of Manticore and Shrike. Alternatively the Falcon (P) would also be perfect for the League. For the player's fleet there's also the Fulgent and Scintilla that have medium missile slots. And, of course, an honorable mention to the Gemini. So there is a lot of competition for a potential new missile destroyer, which makes designing it quite difficult. Particularly with "same thing - different tech level" being off the table (for good reason).

I forgot about Gemini (probably because I think of it as a civilian-tier ship like Wayfarer).  I think Alex wrote he will remove Civilian-Grade hull from it.  With a few more buffs, Gemini can be closer to a real warship like Apogee (that "exploration" ship that is still a bit too cheap and powerful for a hybrid at 18 DP) and be that destroyer.  Especially since Reserve Deployment is more of a harmful system with that stiff recovery rate penalty.

But if Gemini stays as it is, sans Civilian-Grade hull, then it will be a weak ship not worth deploying beyond early game.