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Author Topic: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2  (Read 38364 times)

ArcticCheetah

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2022, 03:28:05 PM »

new toys! really looking forward to this when it eventually drops.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2022, 03:32:31 PM »

I'm really looking forward to playing around with some of the new toys - at this point, the behind-the-scenes goodies are even more exciting than the player-facing stuff for me. The IR Autolance mechanics, in particular, offer another fun way to make beam weapons a little more interesting.

Other than mechanics, I'm looking forward to more story. David's writing has really grown on me as the campaign content has expanded.

I understand the changes in principle, but if the Syndrian Diktat is run by incompetent megalomania on so many levels, how can they survive squatting the most substantial fuel resources while hated by basically everybody else? You'd think somebody would have taken them out by now.
(I talked about this a bit in an earlier reply; I'd imagine Andrada is - or at least was - an able politician, and a charismatic leader. Incompetent in some things does not mean incompetent in all things, but unfortunately(?) his... condition... prevents him from being aware - and of being made aware - of his deficiencies.)
Also, the player needs some tempting applecarts to upset. Pushing a loathsome dictator down the stairs to watch him go thumpity-thump on the staircase all the way down is a pretty good one.

(a lot of these regimes survive by 'eating their seed corn' - they degrade over time, as the smart dissidents leave, and corruption or sucking-up to the dictator replace effective administration. A couple generations later, people live worse lives, but have no memory of better - and the system shambles on, especially if it has massive revenues from an extractive industry to prop it up.)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 08:38:36 PM by Harmful Mechanic »
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Megas

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2022, 03:43:49 PM »

In fairness, the description is talking about pre-Collapse events! But mainly, indies-as-is don't really need a capital; there's not a lot (any?) indie fleets that would have one. Mercs aside, but they use separate ship lists. Plus, having a specific "independent" capital ship kind of implies a greater degree of organization and shared manufacturing and so on than really exists, so to me at least it doesn't feel quite right. If anything, I'd probably give independents access to *a bunch* of different capitals (to simulate their fleets getting access to them in different ways - whatever they can buy, wherever), but, right, that's basically the "mercs" faction.
Probably should start using "mercs" for Indie deserters, or replace them with more pirates.  It gets tiring fighting Dominator and Apogee spam when cleaning up Indie-aligned deserter bounties.

Even the pirates (who feel like evil Indies) and terrorists have their own capital, even if it is a hacked tanker or something.
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DaShiv

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2022, 04:13:19 PM »

Re: LG's d-mod - it's actually not a bad thing to have a low-impact d-mod (assuming it's less impact than other d-mods), since that's a buff for Derelict Operations. And it's no big deal to restore it off if it's unwanted. I do think full OP cost deduction for Solar Shielding is a bit unnecessarily harsh though - half price would make it more of a "bonus", especially compared to how good LP's free built-in SO is.

Quote from: Alex
The Brilliant – the other cruiser – loses its fighter bay (so that not every Remnant cruiser is about drones or fighters in some way), but gets Plasma Burn (a mobility system) to help differentiate it more strongly from the Apex.

This is a badly needed buff, since the Brilliant compared quite poorly vs Champion and Apogee and was the worst Remnant ship on a per-DP basis. (I assume the Brilliant will also receive an OP buff as a refund on the OP tax for modular fighter bays?) It doesn't have quite the flux/speed as an Aurora but will have more punch, and I for one am looking forward to Remnants fleets having improved strike/flanking ability.

I do wonder if the remaining underpowered Remnant ships could receive a balance pass as well - namely, the Fulgent's poor flux, the Lumen's OP deficiency, and the Scintilla's mismatched ship system for Remnant LPC's.

Noticed that with Brilliant losing the fighter bay, only Scintillas will use and drop the Remnant fighter chips.

Yes - perhaps the Apex should have a single modular fighter bay mixed with their Terminators? It would still remain thematic as a heavy droneship, but also allows for more versatility and better build variety. It would be frustrating for LPC drops to be solely dependent on a single ship type.
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Twilight Sentinel

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2022, 04:17:40 PM »

The SD's content is rather topical for current events.  I am a bit concerned about them having even more Hammerheads.  Between the Hegemony, Persian League, and the Dictate too using them as a core part of the fleet, the hammerhead gets overused a lot.  The player is likely to be using them a lot too, since there just aren't that many destroyer sized line ships.  Have you considered another destroyer to add a bit more variety?  There isn't a rare midline destroyer yet, just saying.  My other thought is that a small number of phase ships for their regular patrol fleets wouldn't be out of line for the SD, especially when they're getting support from both the PL and TT.

The Odyssey could also work well for the PL, as they do have a fair number of fighters and carriers and could really use a capital battlecarrier.

If that (LP) Venture still has surveying equipment, it's quite possible that it might become my go to early cruiser if I'm not starting with an Apogee.  No ill advised modifications and the ability to keep up with smaller ships to be the tank?  Hell yeah!  Just need to build in augmented drives and you're good to go exploring.
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Radicaljack

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2022, 04:26:40 PM »

Hopefully the Odyssey actually appears in this patch, and the terminator drones AI improvement is a welcome piece of news, really really excited to see what shakes out in this patch, excited to see so much work done already!
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Megas

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2022, 04:31:49 PM »

Quote
I do wonder if the remaining underpowered Remnant ships could receive a balance pass as well - namely, the Fulgent's poor flux, the Lumen's OP deficiency, and the Scintilla's mismatched ship system for Remnant LPC's.
Fulgent could use that new built-in hullmod one of the new Remnant ships has.  Fulgent is slow and has short range.  It feels like a destroyer-sized Paragon, but without any compensation for its sluggishness.

Recall Device might be okay for Scintilla if it did not have that horrid recharge rate.  Then again, I have not seen AI use Recall Device if it did not have any bombers, so it might as well be a "mismatch".

Hopefully the Odyssey actually appears in this patch, and the terminator drones AI improvement is a welcome piece of news, really really excited to see what shakes out in this patch, excited to see so much work done already!
I am sick of AI throwing their drones away at what seems like the earliest opportunity, more wasteful than with Harpoons.  I rather have "No System" or "Active Flares" than Termination Sequence for AI Tempests.


P.S.  As for Lumen, I would be fine with its current OP if it had more dissipation to support more than two guns and/or had its DP reduced to 3.  Lumen is too weak to be an 80% Glimmer.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 04:36:35 PM by Megas »
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Dri

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2022, 04:36:20 PM »

Don't you find it a tad odd to give the Remnants, a faction already made up of entirely unique ships that the player can't make much use of, TWO more major ships? I would have put that effort into the Diktat myself—priorities seem out of whack here.
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Destructively Phased

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2022, 04:38:15 PM »

I have to say, I really like the Pegasus sprite. It somehow manages to look both durable and bristling with firepower, while having at least some speed. A fast battleship. Though, reading the description, probably the only thing it could run away from is a paragon. But oh well. Maybe to further sell its reliance on missiles it should come with the expanded missile racks built in? The other 2 missile focused ships in the game that readily come to mind are the Falcon P and Gryphon, which have some means of more missiles built in.

Otherwise, Im looking forward to ramming the Pegasus into enemy ships, being destroyed and taking them with me in the blast.

On the Dictat, that’s going to be a heck of an adjustment to get used to, but being stupidly corrupt should make them nice and distinct. And it’ll be easier to go and tangle with the Lion Guard over Sindria and have fun blowing them up. Though, could we get a Dictat package that produces ships with the Dictat paint job, but not the D-mod?

Finally, on the remnant, I see we’re adding to the terror of the radiant being a big block of slow guns that can somehow back up to safety with the terror of “oh god, there’s now 2 large and 4 medium mounts right behind me”. Excellent.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 04:51:15 PM by Destructively Phased »
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2022, 04:40:17 PM »

Great stuff Alex!
Love the LG Specials ( :P) and Apex (for real).
Would it be too much to ask for some patch notes about changes to existing ships and skills?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 04:43:20 PM by SonnaBanana »
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Megas

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2022, 04:40:38 PM »

Don't you find it a tad odd to give the Remnants, a faction already made up of entirely unique ships that the player can't make much use of, TWO more major ships? I would have put that effort into the Diktat myself—priorities seem out of whack here.
I have no problem with that if it means the player fights less Radiants in big Ordos fleets.  If not for AI cores, Remnant ships aside from Radiant are rather crappy, and Radiant is simply good, but not overpowered at 60 DP.  (Glimmer is fine, but... a basic frigate will simply get crushed by a much bigger ship.)

Also, Automated Ships is a letdown when the only good ships to use are Glimmer and Radiant.  (Brilliant is okay when backed by Alpha core.)

My gut feeling is the extra ships and weakened defenses on Brilliant will probably make Ordos easier.

Radiants with Alpha cores are annoying to fight.  They hit hard, take a huge beating, and if you win the flux war, they can easily skim away to avoid getting pinned down then vent.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 04:43:56 PM by Megas »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2022, 04:45:03 PM »

- Sindria developed Solar Shielding.
- Sindria (with TT help) developed Kinetic Blaster and G I G A C A N N O N.
- Sindria-exclusive ships are straight worse than base.
- Luddic Path ships get SO for free when nobody else can.

One of these things doesn't hold up.
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Megas

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2022, 04:58:37 PM »

Quote from: Alex
Oh, you can't get it from a Diktat commission. They're not going to sell prized, secret technology to some mercenary. There are no blueprints for these, and they can't be found as exploration loot, either.

Ah, so now I will automatically be hostile to the SD to farm their weapons :D. I guess it's sort of nice that they are worse in combat lmao.
Missed the no blueprint stuff.

Without blueprints or sales, it looks like the only way to get them is to attack the Diktat.  If the new energy weapons are best-in-class for high-tech ships, then that is a huge incentive to treat the Diktat as purple pirates and attack them at every opportunity just to get their prized weapons.

The biggest thing about this is sat-bombing the Diktat out of the sector means no more guns from them.

The kinetic blaster is probably the biggest prize.  The classic medium energy weapons are kind of garbage for anti-shield.
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Megas

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2022, 05:11:53 PM »

After taking another look at the Pegasus stats on one of the blog pics, I wonder if it can work as a Shield Shunt armor tank.  Conquest can work like one (even if worse at it than Onslaught), and it only has 1200 armor (which becomes 2000 after player gets all of the armor boosters, not including Polarized Armor).  Pegasus with all of those energy mounts, maybe have heavy burst laser spam to serve as PD, while firing kinetics and chucking missiles at everyone.
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Alex

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2022, 05:14:31 PM »

Will there be a new Lion's Guard blueprint pack to get the lesser LG ships (Falcon, Hammerhead, Centurion)?

Looks like more blueprints to raid planets for, and more times I need to raid heavily defended worlds (i.e., Kazeron and Sindria).

There (currently, at least) isn't a blueprint pack, and while in theory the blueprints could drop, they'd only do that at a colony owned by the LG, of which there aren't any.


(I assume the Brilliant will also receive an OP buff as a refund on the OP tax for modular fighter bays?) It doesn't have quite the flux/speed as an Aurora but will have more punch, and I for one am looking forward to Remnants fleets having improved strike/flanking ability.

It didn't - I thought about it, but it feels like just giving it Plasma Burn is enough of a buff, so it doesn't also need to get 10 OP.


Yes - perhaps the Apex should have a single modular fighter bay mixed with their Terminators? It would still remain thematic as a heavy droneship, but also allows for more versatility and better build variety. It would be frustrating for LPC drops to be solely dependent on a single ship type.

Hmm - I think the Scintilla is common enough that it's not really a concern. I don't think sticking an extra bay on the Apex would be a good idea - mixing fighters like that would be messy, and the ship really isn't about that, anyway.

I am a bit concerned about them having even more Hammerheads.  Between the Hegemony, Persian League, and the Dictate too using them as a core part of the fleet, the hammerhead gets overused a lot.  The player is likely to be using them a lot too, since there just aren't that many destroyer sized line ships.  Have you considered another destroyer to add a bit more variety?

Ah - the Hegemony doesn't, anymore.

There isn't a rare midline destroyer yet, just saying.

Hmm!

If that (LP) Venture still has surveying equipment, it's quite possible that it might become my go to early cruiser if I'm not starting with an Apogee.  No ill advised modifications and the ability to keep up with smaller ships to be the tank?  Hell yeah!  Just need to build in augmented drives and you're good to go exploring.

Hold up, hold up. Who said anything about no ill advised modifications? :)


Hopefully the Odyssey actually appears in this patch, and the terminator drones AI improvement is a welcome piece of news, really really excited to see what shakes out in this patch, excited to see so much work done already!

It should, yeah. And, thank you!

Quote
I do wonder if the remaining underpowered Remnant ships could receive a balance pass as well - namely, the Fulgent's poor flux, the Lumen's OP deficiency, and the Scintilla's mismatched ship system for Remnant LPC's.
Fulgent could use that new built-in hullmod one of the new Remnant ships has.  Fulgent is slow and has short range.  It feels like a destroyer-sized Paragon, but without any compensation for its sluggishness.

Hmm. The Fulgent isn't amazing, but at the same time it usually feels pretty dangerous, just due to the Reapers it can sport. Still, stocking the Energy Bolt Coherer on it... I'll think about that, it's a reasonable point, and I don't remember offhand how good its speed is.


Made some notes about the other Remnant ships, thank you everyone!


Don't you find it a tad odd to give the Remnants, a faction already made up of entirely unique ships that the player can't make much use of, TWO more major ships? I would have put that effort into the Diktat myself—priorities seem out of whack here.

Honestly? Not at all. First up, this is assuming I'd *want* to give the Diktat an additional capital ship; I don't think it actually warrants it, being a minor faction. Second, the Remnants are a common enemy you fight, and adding more ship variety there is high-impact.


I have to say, I really like the Pegasus sprite. It somehow manages to look both durable and bristling with firepower, while having at least some speed. A fast battleship. Though, reading the description, probably the only thing it could run away from is a paragon. But oh well. Maybe to further sell its reliance on missiles it should come with the expanded missile racks built in? The other 2 missile focused ships in the game that readily come to mind are the Falcon P and Gryphon, which have some means of more missiles built in.

I'm glad you like it! And yeah, that's about right on what it can outrun. Well, it can also "chase down" an Onslaught.

I did think about building in Expanded Missile Racks but just... decided against it. I don't want to go too wild with building in regular hullmods without a specific reason for it.


Though, could we get a Dictat package that produces ships with the Dictat paint job, but not the D-mod?

Hmm, maaaaaybe? Honestly that seems like going a bit too deep with it.

Finally, on the remnant, I see we’re adding to the terror of the radiant being a big block of slow guns that can somehow back up to safety with the terror of “oh god, there’s now 2 large and 4 medium mounts right behind me”. Excellent.

*thumbs up*


Great stuff Alex!
Love the LG Specials ( :P) and Apex (for real).
Would it be too much to ask for some patch notes about changes to existing ships and skills?

Thank you! A bit early for that; not much I'd want to talk about.


After taking another look at the Pegasus stats on one of the blog pics, I wonder if it can work as a Shield Shunt armor tank.  Conquest can work like one (even if worse at it than Onslaught), and it only has 1200 armor (which becomes 2000 after player gets all of the armor boosters, not including Polarized Armor).  Pegasus with all of those energy mounts, maybe have heavy burst laser spam to serve as PD, while firing kinetics and chucking missiles at everyone.

Interesting, curious to see if that pans out!
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