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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2  (Read 37918 times)

AcaMetis

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2022, 01:33:20 PM »

So how difficult is a Gigacannon to find on a...shall we say "very open-minded" market? Because I am definitely going to want to test that thing on a Sunder ;).

Impossible! It's too hot of an item.
Hmm...unfortunate, but entirely understandable. Can it be found as exploration loot? Samples and/or the blueprint for it? I do want to try it, but getting high rep and a commission with the Diktat would be...a lot of effort for one gun.
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WMGreywind

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2022, 01:34:50 PM »

This has been quite the interesting blog post. I definitely can't wait to see just how all these weapons go along with all the ships. And that Gigacannon. Oh my, oh my indeed. I also will have to make sure to keep in mind about the Diktat's non-carrier focus.
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UngaBunga

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2022, 01:42:26 PM »

I understand the changes in principle, but if the Syndrian Diktat is run by incompetent megalomania on so many levels, how can they survive squatting the most substantial fuel resources while hated by basically everybody else? You'd think somebody would have taken them out by now.
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David

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2022, 01:55:30 PM »

My biggest issue as a gamer is their sprites look too good. :)

Haha. Well, thank you!

I understand the changes in principle, but if the Syndrian Diktat is run by incompetent megalomania on so many levels, how can they survive squatting the most substantial fuel resources while hated by basically everybody else? You'd think somebody would have taken them out by now.

(Are they hated by basically everybody else?)

(And not to get into real life stuff, but: if you've got fuel to sell, it sure seems like someone is always willing to buy...)
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Alex

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2022, 02:00:37 PM »

When will they get actual music?

Soon ...ish :)


... especially the unique energy weapons that would hypothetically be fantastic if somebody with any sense of loadout design (perhaps an upstart spacer suddenly rising to fame) got their hands on them.

Indeed!


Fun stuff. I'm picturing the GIGACANNON as kind of like a PPC out of Battletech, except with poor range. Does that fit? Better have a kickass firing noise regardless of how awful it is.

(Oh, jeez, I didn't have a TODO note for the sounds!)


I think the blog shows you really, really like the Orion drive, considering there's 2 more ships using variations on it. :)

Guilty as charged :)

Overall, I like the Persean League's new laser missile identity.  Although, I do kinda wonder if that's a bit limiting for the Persean League's Pegasus to be only mounting Hydra and Dragonfire torpedoes.  Essentially only 3 variations.  All Hydra, all Dragonfire, and a mix.  Of course the player won't be restricted in that way, so perhaps not an issue.  And Mercenaries likely can have fully random loadouts for these things.  And as the blog post is titled, it does uniquify the Persean league.

Pretty much with you on all points; I don't think the PL being a bit restricted there is a big deal.

With the discussion of the Paragon, Odyssey, and Astral for Tri-Tachyon, will Odysseys be showing up in actual TT fleets more often?

It should, yeah. So should the Medusa.

I like the added Remnant ship diversity.  I do wonder if the high tech Orion device (Nova Burst) will end up feeling any different from Plasma Burn.  Certainly looks cool though. 

I think it feels diferent just because you go a good bit further, but I mean, functionally they're all in the same general category. (Aside from the limited utility of blowing up nearby fighters/missiles, but that's just so situational.)

My biggest issue as a gamer is their sprites look too good. :)

:D

I do wonder how that poor effectiveness impacts bounties?  If a fleet with Lion Guard ships and "elite" fitting is intended to be easier to defeat, does that mean you'll run into more Sindarian Lion's Guard themed bounties early on/at low difficulty, but then they phase out for basic Sindarian fleet ships as the bounties go up in difficulty?  Or are Lion's Guard purely around Sindaria and don't show up in bounties?  Or simply not enough difference in effectiveness to really worry about?

The impact of "special modifications" isn't enough to really factor into to kind of difficulty discussion - it's not like pirate ships with stack a bunch of meaningful d-mods; this one is more of a flavor one in comparison. I don't *think* you get LG-deserter person bounties, either?

Well the thing is that PL also primarily uses Midline also, and unless I missed something in the blog post, that’s not changing. So couldn’t one argue that PL is already homogenous in that aspect for midline? And since the lore drop from the new weapons tells us that TT is helping the diktat behind the scenes, wouldn’t it be more interesting to have HT sprinkled in to differentiate them more? Otherwise it will just feel like PL without the carriers and primarily just falcon and eagle/etc spam. Which I feel would make them boring to fight in the long run.

I think mixing in some high-tech ships would make their fleets have less of a defined character. And they're a minor faction, so having more limited ship availability seems reasonable, too. I mean, what you're suggesting seems like it could be reasonable too, but that's just not the way it went.


Maybe there can be a small positive buff to a LG ship in that arrogance and hubris give a bit of a morale boost?

Fanatical loyalty and doctrinal purity give a CR boost or ....?
I'd be tempted to give the modification package a 2% hull durability bonus that any fine officer could point to while also being completely not worth it.

(I was thinking of giving it something minor, but I think that just makes it a bit confusing.)


Hmm...unfortunate, but entirely understandable. Can it be found as exploration loot? Samples and/or the blueprint for it? I do want to try it, but getting high rep and a commission with the Diktat would be...a lot of effort for one gun.

Oh, you can't get it from a Diktat commission. They're not going to sell prized, secret technology to some mercenary. There are no blueprints for these, and they can't be found as exploration loot, either.
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Alex

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2022, 02:07:06 PM »

I understand the changes in principle, but if the Syndrian Diktat is run by incompetent megalomania on so many levels, how can they survive squatting the most substantial fuel resources while hated by basically everybody else? You'd think somebody would have taken them out by now.

(I talked about this a bit in an earlier reply; I'd imagine Andrada is - or at least was - an able politician, and a charismatic leader. Incompetent in some things does not mean incompetent in all things, but unfortunately(?) his... condition... prevents him from being aware - and of being made aware - of his deficiencies.)
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2022, 02:15:02 PM »

Ah, so now I will automatically be hostile to the SD to farm their weapons :D. I guess it's sort of nice that they are worse in combat lmao.
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AcaMetis

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2022, 02:26:40 PM »

Yeah, that's (still) understandable but a definite ouch on the acquisition front. I'll have to keep an eye on patrol patterns and see if there's any Lion's Guard fleets that could, eh, end up chasing a unidentified pirate fleet which mysteriously disappears afterwards. Alongside the Lion's Guard fleet :). I mean I'd totally never attack the Diktat just to get my grubby mitts on some Gigacannons, totally ;).
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Shinr

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2022, 02:30:44 PM »

About DEM missiles, I can't help but be reminded about the comments in the Carrier/Fighter balance threads stating that missiles are better fighters than actual fighters.
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00lewnor

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2022, 02:36:14 PM »

First thought: An improvised Orion drive? Improvised by literal luddites? That doesn’t sound like it’s anywhere near a good idea.

Second thoughts: AHHHHHHH! So many new things! I can’t wait! (Ahem.) At first glance I’m concerned that some of them sound a bit “I’m not sure what to do, so let’s just slap a gimmick on it and call it good”, particularly the IR autolance and Energy Bolt Coherer. But I’m not the one who has designed an amazing game up till now, so I think I can trust you to continue to do so.

As a possible compromise for the Lion’s guard hulls, what if they get solar shielding installed at half cost with the ‘special modification’ costing OP to make bring it to full cost? That way in Lion’s Guard hands the ship is as currently described but if the played buys/captures it and really wants to they can restore it to get a fancy skin with solar shielding at half off.
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Alex

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2022, 02:49:58 PM »

Yeah, that's (still) understandable but a definite ouch on the acquisition front. I'll have to keep an eye on patrol patterns and see if there's any Lion's Guard fleets that could, eh, end up chasing a unidentified pirate fleet which mysteriously disappears afterwards. Alongside the Lion's Guard fleet :). I mean I'd totally never attack the Diktat just to get my grubby mitts on some Gigacannons, totally ;).

Oh no, of course not. Perish the thought!

About DEM missiles, I can't help but be reminded about the comments in the Carrier/Fighter balance threads stating that missiles are better fighters than actual fighters.

I seem to remember it being called the other way 'round, with "fighters being better missiles than missiles"? Regardless, though, it's quite an apples and oranges comparison imo :)


First thought: An improvised Orion drive? Improvised by literal luddites? That doesn’t sound like it’s anywhere near a good idea.

Yes!

Second thoughts: AHHHHHHH! So many new things! I can’t wait! (Ahem.) At first glance I’m concerned that some of them sound a bit “I’m not sure what to do, so let’s just slap a gimmick on it and call it good”, particularly the IR autolance and Energy Bolt Coherer. But I’m not the one who has designed an amazing game up till now, so I think I can trust you to continue to do so.

Hmm, I guess I can see how it might look that way. The things that make these special/unusual are both targeted at specific design goals, though, so: hopefully not! Another way of saying it is that it's not the "gimmick" that's the point, but rather it enables the point.

As a possible compromise for the Lion’s guard hulls, what if they get solar shielding installed at half cost with the ‘special modification’ costing OP to make bring it to full cost? That way in Lion’s Guard hands the ship is as currently described but if the played buys/captures it and really wants to they can restore it to get a fancy skin with solar shielding at half off.

I was thinking about that; it's definitely a possibility - much like the weapons, it'd be "bad in LG hands, but potentially good otherwise". It'd probably have to come with a pretty hefty increase to the penalties of Special Modifications, though. And I'd be concerned about this making the default versions of the ships feel like a "bad" version. That sort of thing would work better with skins that make significant mechanical changes to a ship's role so they can be a sidegrade.
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Candlebury

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2022, 02:53:26 PM »

Surprised the Odyssey didn't become the Indie only capital. Both since its description mention it mostly being a flagship for non TT megacorps,  and its unique quasi-civilian hullshape.

Really like the Diktat narrative however.
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Grievous69

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2022, 02:54:42 PM »

Quick thoughts before I initiate my REM missiles:

Holy heck we finally got a hard flux kinetic energy weapon... after all these years daaaaamn. I'm honestly more curious about the new weapons than anything else. Of course other things are also super exciting. Pegasus seems like a "forbidden" capital you get to pilot while laughing maniacally. And glad Remnants are finally getting some variation in them. 1 cruiser and 1 capital made fights feel very samey in late game.

Obligatory "can't bloody wait for this to releaseeeee!"
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Alex

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2022, 03:06:11 PM »

Surprised the Odyssey didn't become the Indie only capital. Both since its description mention it mostly being a flagship for non TT megacorps,  and its unique quasi-civilian hullshape.

Really like the Diktat narrative however.

In fairness, the description is talking about pre-Collapse events! But mainly, indies-as-is don't really need a capital; there's not a lot (any?) indie fleets that would have one. Mercs aside, but they use separate ship lists. Plus, having a specific "independent" capital ship kind of implies a greater degree of organization and shared manufacturing and so on than really exists, so to me at least it doesn't feel quite right. If anything, I'd probably give independents access to *a bunch* of different capitals (to simulate their fleets getting access to them in different ways - whatever they can buy, wherever), but, right, that's basically the "mercs" faction.

Quick thoughts before I initiate my REM missiles:

Holy heck we finally got a hard flux kinetic energy weapon... after all these years daaaaamn. I'm honestly more curious about the new weapons than anything else. Of course other things are also super exciting. Pegasus seems like a "forbidden" capital you get to pilot while laughing maniacally. And glad Remnants are finally getting some variation in them. 1 cruiser and 1 capital made fights feel very samey in late game.

Obligatory "can't bloody wait for this to releaseeeee!"

:D
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Megas

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Re: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2022, 03:25:14 PM »

Will there be a new Lion's Guard blueprint pack to get the lesser LG ships (Falcon, Hammerhead, Centurion)?

Looks like more blueprints to raid planets for, and more times I need to raid heavily defended worlds (i.e., Kazeron and Sindria).

@ Grevious:  Yes, I am more interested in the weapons.  High-tech has junk for medium weapons, enough that IR Pulse Laser with elite Point Defense is sometimes the best option due to range and efficiency (and the ship has more mounts than flux it can support).  Also, want to see IR Autolance as a possible option instead of Heav Burst Laser for long range assault.  (Phase Lance is inefficient and does not get the +200 range from elite Point Defense.)


P.S.  Also interested in the new Remnant ships.  Maybe there will be less Radiants to fight.  Noticed that with Brilliant losing the fighter bay, only Scintillas will use and drop the Remnant fighter chips.  Also, with Brilliant getting plasma burn, they lost their main PD - active flares.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 03:35:35 PM by Megas »
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