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News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: Balancing Income  (Read 3413 times)

Megas

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Re: Balancing Income
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2022, 01:01:01 PM »

If its a pirate base that is close to the core/the direction I often am travelling, I will keep it around as a raiding/trading port. If its out of the way but has a bounty, a combined raid+bounty is usually enough to get me interested. The credits alone aren't enough, but a good raid on a station can give a lot of supplies/fuel, enough to make up the difference usually.
That used to be the case in previous releases, but in the current release, the player only gets about 30 supplies or 40 fuel per marine token, much less than before, and player cannot chain-raid for the same commodity the next day.  Good enough to top off the fleet when player has ten tokens, but not enough to profit much.  300 supplies or 400 fuel is not much when player wants thousands to support a large fleet.  Of course, if player only loses less than ten marines per raid, it is basically a "Why not?" moment - free money and marines get xp.

And base bounties still pay less than a named bounty fleet of similar difficulty.
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Histidine

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Re: Balancing Income
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2022, 09:03:36 PM »

Seconding SR2 mention; there's definitely mechanics in there worth considering.
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haibane

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Re: Balancing Income
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2022, 06:57:21 AM »

Sorry for hijacking the thread with more SR2 stuff, but it is somewhat relevant to the discussion.

I believe this combination of news+search likely happened accidentally but it is genius.



News serve three roles:

  • Tell user that something is happening somewhere. Events often cause reactions from other ships/fleets which can be naturally observed by the player. Player is not stupid it can put 1 and 1 together tying cause and effect.
  • This works the other way around too. News can tell result of someone's actions either indirectly (for ex. lost food shipments -> famine announcement) or just spell a name because person did something exceptional. And yes, this can be the player too.

It cannot be underestimated how well those two points can sell illusion of a living, breathing world. What player observes is the endless cycle of "there is event -> many actors react" and "someone's action -> event happens". And just as importantly, the player is also part of that cycle. Newsletter helps to establish the idea clearly.

The last point gameplay related:

  • News naturally introduce and bring to your attention different activities you can perform in the game. For example there can be

    • Military - "Military raid on system X. Gathering up in system Y and departing in 30 days. Everyone welcome."
    • Trading - "Famine on planet Z. Help."
    • Bounty - "We are tired of antics of Guy Pirate. 1000 credits for his head."
    • Piracy - "A charity convoy is sent by planet A to planet B to alleviate the crisis."

However after trying them a couple of times player will realize that they are... suboptimal. There are strings attached: rarity, high entry threshold, super short timing, big competition (there is a dozen of others who want Guy Pirate's bounty besides you!). Oftentimes you have to be either lucky or already in the position to take advantage of the opportunity. Which naturally pushes players in the direction of discovering other, more reliable ways to perform activity they enjoyed. It can be researching market prices to get a good trade, taking personal bounty contract from planetary administration, self-initiated military raid or something else.
It is not to say that news become irrelevant. They represent a chance to hit a big score if you notice it and spice up the monotony by doing something different. Also with experience and preparation you can increase the chance landing the activity you like.

I suspect that one of the biggest gripes that players have with SS alternative (global bounties, trade convoys etc.) in that it feels unnatural. It is not here to tell you how the world works. It is here for your convenience because the game really, really wants you to do this because it's fun. It fails to create immersion. It fails to tell that player is part of the world. As a result many propositions to "fix" it tend to hide or move it somewhere else where it feels more natural.



Search can possibly fix bounty hunting. The problem with bounties in that they just like trade are static. It is more of an online shopping: "Three pirates for me please. Hard ones, yes. No, leave them. I'll pick them up myself in two months." It is understandable, if the game doesn't tell you where they are player will get instantly lost. If the target doesn't sit in the single place player will get confused, because it's gone somewhere. And if the game tracks it for you, then there is no point in allowing to move in the first place.

But imagine your contract gives you only pirate's name. However, you can look it up and get a public dossier. Latest sightings, trade deals (only official of course), observed fleet composition. You go to the place, but he is not here. You search again, realize he moved to nearby system and follow to find them doing their pirate thing: smuggling, robbing, running from police. Game can allow the pirate to act freely without fear that player will get completely lost, because you can always whip up galaxy google search and acquire the freshest information on the target. There is a breadcrumb trail to follow. But on the other hand, game doesn't spoonfeed you by telling the info directly. You have to prove the system that you can use google even in game and are worthy of getting access to this information.

This sells a lot better impression of hunting a "real" fleet. Because they don't patiently wait until you finally come to harvest their lives, but actually do their own thing. They move, trade and run away seeing your intentions. I hope you agree it is also a lot more immersive.

And yes, SR2 does exactly this.



I definitely think there is something to learn from SR2. It is one huge mess of a game but they nailed those bits really well.
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