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[persocom01]

the alliance cruiser is made (almost) solely to counter the pact cruiser, which it does, but also has fairly good cargo and fuel capacities (like an apogee).

it has worse shields (assume makeshift shield gen), thinner armor and worse flux than the high tech apogee. (more OP if you consider azure lance weapons though) The alliance cruiser costs 1 more DP than the apogee and pact cruiser. I don't get how it is a counter to the pact cruiser with the only advantage being 2 small missiles and 4 small ballistics, unless some loadout is assumed. Then again, the pact cruiser is not particularly strong to need a counter, so you are probably talking about the Sunrider game rather than vanilla starsector meta.

in general alliance ships are a nightmare to keep alive when you leave the AI to pilot them due to poor or no shields, and fare badly toe to toe with ships of similar DP. This also goes for the alliance battleship, which, while not completely useless, combat wise is approximately comparable to the vanilla Conqueror. However, it has worse flux dissipation and the lack of shield combined with the need for relatively close ranged engagements due to the short range of the Machiavelli's Buster means avoiding damage entirely is impractical, and it is bound to suffer in sustained engagements as its armor gets worn down.

the shape of the Machiavelli is also a disadvantage, as the pointed tip (where Machiavelli's Buster is located) tends to get worn down very quickly and exposes the ship in to damage from ship explosions due to it extending the hitbox of the ship closer to the enemy than the main body. This is a major occupational hazard for shieldless ships. I don't really see how it is worth the 75 dp deployment price tag. When piloted by the player, it can utilized much better, as its good maneuverability makes it similar to pilot as the Odyssey, and the player uses Iron Will much better in both dishing out and mitigating damage. However, both Odyssey and Conqueror are only 45 and 40 DP respectively, so even considering the good hull and OP point values, I will only rate the Machiavelli as being worth ~50-60 DP at most.

[Alex_Sans]

exciting hope, we can do this new side story on existing run. 

(also how to check if we downloaded 7a and not just 7 )

i forgot to change version when uploading the patch... if you downloaded the mod after i posted that patch, then you're good...

How do you find other Ceran weapons?

you don't

Also for the other factions only seem to be able to find their savior weapons, cannons and PD, is this something as well that needs to be found?

...yeah

it has worse shields (assume makeshift shield gen), thinner armor and worse flux than the high tech apogee. (more OP if you consider azure lance weapons though) The alliance cruiser costs 1 more DP than the apogee and pact cruiser. I don't get how it is a counter to the pact cruiser with the only advantage being 2 small missiles and 4 small ballistics, unless some loadout is assumed. Then again, the pact cruiser is not particularly strong to need a counter, so you are probably talking about the Sunrider game rather than vanilla starsector meta.

it's supposed to have less armor, but more hull than pact cruiser, and it's not hi-tech to have too much flux. loadouts otherwise do get that job done most of the time tho, but if i were to be worried about "vanilla starsector meta," this mod wouldn't even exist.
anyway, i've been writing and testing too much lately, so i'll take a break before i think about what to do with its stats

in general alliance ships are a nightmare to keep alive when you leave the AI to pilot them due to poor or no shields, and fare badly toe to toe with ships of similar DP. This also goes for the alliance battleship, which, while not completely useless, combat wise is approximately comparable to the vanilla Conqueror. However, it has worse flux dissipation and the lack of shield combined with the need for relatively close ranged engagements due to the short range of the Machiavelli's Buster means avoiding damage entirely is impractical, and it is bound to suffer in sustained engagements as its armor gets worn down.

the shape of the Machiavelli is also a disadvantage, as the pointed tip (where Machiavelli's Buster is located) tends to get worn down very quickly and exposes the ship in to damage from ship explosions due to it extending the hitbox of the ship closer to the enemy than the main body. This is a major occupational hazard for shieldless ships. I don't really see how it is worth the 75 dp deployment price tag. When piloted by the player, it can utilized much better, as its good maneuverability makes it similar to pilot as the Odyssey, and the player uses Iron Will much better in both dishing out and mitigating damage. However, both Odyssey and Conqueror are only 45 and 40 DP respectively, so even considering the good hull and OP point values, I will only rate the Machiavelli as being worth ~50-60 DP at most.

75 dp machiavelli? so... you're still playing a 0.5.x version of the mod? because i reduced its dp to 60 over a month ago

odyssey has 3 larges, machiavelli has 6 (+ buster + azures + helldarts built-in)

conquest may also have 6, but no built-in, -300 armor, -12000 hull and is a whole different story, with broadside playstyle (the reason why it has hi-tech flux) and literally the worst shield flux/damage in the game

also... i don't get why pact or alliance ships (which are heavily ballistic-focused) always keep getting their flux stats compared to hitechs rather than lowtechs, frankly speaking

about the shape, unfortunately i'm not a ship spriter and its 3d model is impratical to port into starsector without extreme changes so it's fate is to be a jerry-rig forever

[Astrefernal]

also... i don't get why pact or alliance ships (which are heavily ballistic-focused) always keep getting their flux stats compared to hitechs rather than lowtechs

Because you can fairly easilly have low flux generation in lowtech ships even when fully kitted out. Something that is VERY hard to do with PACT and Alliance ships when using vanilla weapons.

And lowtech ships also have the advantage of a good armor to tank hits, something the Alliance cruiser does NOT have. The PACT one is actually good with it's Dampener Field.

As is now, the only way to have a ratio of flux generated/dissipated that can be considered decent compared to lowtech by many people is to use weapons from the Sunrider mod itself (wich are hard to find unless you get the blueprints), or use other mods  like "Progressive S-mods" to mitigate the problem over time.

Thankfully, it only concerns the cruiser size or bigger ships, with the exception of the Sunrider and other Superships. PACT ships can still be good to use with vanilla stuff to some extent, but Alliance's ones got the short end of the stick.
That's why you have so many people crying about the Aghata Cristie having low armor/speed, it has ALL weaknesses of a lowtech ships with only high HP (compared to midline ships) as an advantage (the many weapons being a downside because of flux).
The Machiavelli would be good enough if you made its "Super mode" (take less damage, fire faster) on a cooldown without the charges. As in you can use it at half or 1/3 of the time you have to wait now to get a new  charge (will have to test myself to get what is good without being overpowered).

[persocom01]

75 dp machiavelli? so... you're still playing a 0.5.x version of the mod? because i reduced its dp to 60 over a month ago

odyssey has 3 larges, machiavelli has 6 (+ buster + azures + helldarts built-in)

conquest may also have 6, but no built-in, -300 armor, -12000 hull and is a whole different story, with broadside playstyle (the reason why it has hi-tech flux) and literally the worst shield flux/damage in the game

also... i don't get why pact or alliance ships (which are heavily ballistic-focused) always keep getting their flux stats compared to hitechs rather than lowtechs, frankly speaking

about the shape, unfortunately i'm not a ship spriter and its 3d model is impratical to port into starsector without extreme changes so it's fate is to be a jerry-rig forever

my apologies, because my current run is fairly old, so I am trying to wrap it up by testing all the mods I aimed to test before I move to 0.98, and Sunrider just happened to be one of them.

the change to 60 DP is a step in the right direction. In my opinion, alliance ships do not play like low tech ships. Low tech ships are stereotypically slow and good at taking damage, but Alliance ships are neither. They have a high tech system (plasma burn) and poor armor compared to low tech, while having flux stats comparable to midline, so they play closer to high tech than low tech, if not for their lack of shield.

I compared the Machiavelli to the conquest even though there are significant differences between the two firstly because I can't think of a vanilla capital more similar to it than the Conquest in terms of role (DPS with poor shield) and flux stats, and from all my battles with it, it seems to contribute similarly. When player piloted it plays closest to the Odyssey.

however, if you are willing to compare ships from other popular mods, there happens to be a mod ship with very similar stats to the machiavelli, but has a shield. That ship is Tahlan's Dun Scaith at 50 DP.

currently I'm testing the Sandworm, and while I have yet to test it extensively, my initial observations is it's overcosted, just like the Machiavelli. It has stats and role most similar to the Invictus, but with only 2 forward facing large and 20 DP more expensive. Perhaps this is meant to reflect it's poor combat prowess due to it being a civilian ship, but at the stage of the game when most players can afford it, I'm kind of doubtful how useful survey cost reduction is. The cargo capacity and salvage gantry are more useful and in that sense it reminds me of the Cathedral from ship/weapon pack, but the Cathedral has pretty decent combat prowess. I guess my only options to make it decent are to try and exploit its small ballistics, most of which can face front, to try and see if it is worth 80 DP.

[Alex_Sans]

okay, noted, guys
i'll keep that in mind when i start to work on the 0.8 update. very unlikely that i'll buff their base hull/armor or DP though

however, if you are willing to compare ships from other popular mods, there happens to be a mod ship with very similar stats to the machiavelli, but has a shield. That ship is Tahlan's Dun Scaith at 50 DP.

i never played it and don't intend to anytime soon, so i have no idea what it does (and you don't need to tell me either)

currently I'm testing the Sandworm, and while I have yet to test it extensively, my initial observations is it's overcosted, just like the Machiavelli. It has stats and role most similar to the Invictus, but with only 2 forward facing large and 20 DP more expensive. Perhaps this is meant to reflect it's poor combat prowess due to it being a civilian ship, but at the stage of the game when most players can afford it, I'm kind of doubtful how useful survey cost reduction is. The cargo capacity and salvage gantry are more useful and in that sense it reminds me of the Cathedral from ship/weapon pack, but the Cathedral has pretty decent combat prowess. I guess my only options to make it decent are to try and exploit its small ballistics, most of which can face front, to try and see if it is worth 80 DP.

yes it is meant to be logistic/exploration civ, but that also doubles down as a tanky armor-battleship that endures even more damage than machiavelli (also note that 0.6 update lets you choose if it's going to have 6000 cargo or 6000 fuel or 3000 crew), that's why i gave it such high dp
and i do want to make its front blades a usable weapon in combat next update.

[immortalartisan]

...Turns out console commands arnt the only source of more other ryders the pirates just have the blueprints lying around somehow.

[Alex_Sans]

i never said you need console to get them. they are part of blueprint packages and known by their respective factions, but not used or sold by them, so this is working as intended



0.7.2 patch:

Persean League no longer replaces Pegasus for Alliance Battleship completely, ABB is rare to show up in their doctrine now (I swear every time the base game updates, a faction loses ship priority and took me embarrassingly long to realize absence of Pegasus)

Nightmare Breakdown no longer triggers on player-owned colonies.

Note: This will not take any effect on ongoing saves!

[DefiasOne]

Off topic: Have you played Sunrider 4?

A small issue, I can't seem to change the range on the warp feature. Removing the hullmod doesn't replace it.

Do you plan on adding any other characters from the series?

[Alex_Sans]

Off topic: Have you played Sunrider 4?

A small issue, I can't seem to change the range on the warp feature. Removing the hullmod doesn't replace it.

Do you plan on adding any other characters from the series?

thrice


first time hear of this. i've seen various streamers replacing the hullmods, and it worked for the three ships that have replaceable hullmods
but what do you mean "doesn't replace it?"
does it not do anything by clicking the remove button?
or does it disappear completely to the point it doesn't even show up at the bottom of installed hullmods list if it's extensive enough that you have to scroll down?


maybe bosses

[DefiasOne]

Off topic: Have you played Sunrider 4?

A small issue, I can't seem to change the range on the warp feature. Removing the hullmod doesn't replace it.

Do you plan on adding any other characters from the series?

thrice


first time hear of this. i've seen various streamers replacing the hullmods, and it worked for the three ships that have replaceable hullmods
but what do you mean "doesn't replace it?"
does it not do anything by clicking the remove button?
or does it disappear completely to the point it doesn't even show up at the bottom of installed hullmods list if it's extensive enough that you have to scroll down?


maybe bosses

I remove the hullmod on sunrider for warp and it doesn't get replaced with the short range version for example. It gets removed completely.

I am however using progressive S mods.

[Alex_Sans]

i installed the lastest version of progressive s-mods and tested the removal of short range warp, blue behemoth and crimson brigate... all of them are still getting replaced instead, just as intended, so it's probably something else that interferes with hullmods

windows? linux? mac?
any unusual game setting on your end?
modlist?

[DefiasOne]

i installed the lastest version of progressive s-mods and tested the removal of short range warp, blue behemoth and crimson brigate... all of them are still getting replaced instead, just as intended, so it's probably something else that interferes with hullmods

windows? linux? mac?
any unusual game setting on your end?
modlist?

Windows. Oddly enough I remember it working on the previous version. Probably one of my mods interfering as you said.
Only thing related to hullmods is that I lowered the xp needed for S mods so I can experiment a bit but that's about it as far as I know.

Code

{"enabledMods": [
  "PAGSM",
  "SBTM",
  "yunruindustries",
  "pantera_ANewLevel40R",
  "adversary",
  "A_S-F",
  "Cryo_but_better",
  "aotd_qol",
  "aod_vos",
  "aotd_vok",
  "apex_design",
  "armaa",
  "zzarmaa_anime",
  "ashlib",
  "HMI_brighton",
  "bmo",
  "nes_buns",
  "CFT",
  "chatter",
  "lw_console",
  "customizablestarsystems",
  "istl_dassaultmikoyan",
  "demandIndicators",
  "edshipyard",
  "EmergentThreats_Vice",
  "EmergentThreats_IX_Revival",
  "Everybody loves KoC",
  "GalacticConstellate",
  "GrandColonies",
  "HMI_SV",
  "HMI",
  "hte",
  "hpst",
  "HIVER",
  "hostileIntercept",
  "sun_hyperdrive",
  "IndEvo",
  "Imperium",
  "timid_xiv",
  "jaydeepiracy",
  "JYD",
  "knights_of_ludd",
  "kyeltziv",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "liminal",
  "LobsterCruiser",
  "lockedAndLoaded",
  "logNot",
  "lunalib",
  "exshippack",
  "mag_protect",
  "wisp_magicAchievementsVanillaPack",
  "MagicLib",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "missinghegemonyauxiliaryships",
  "missingshipscivilian",
  "missingmidlineships",
  "missingpatherships",
  "missingshipspirate",
  "missingsuperships",
  "missingshipsweapons",
  "MoreBarMissions",
  "niko_moreCombatTerrainEffects",
  "MoreMilitaryMissions",
  "Musashimanufactor",
  "NSP",
  "ness_saw",
  "wisp_NeutrinoDetectorMkII",
  "nexerelin",
  "officerExtension",
  "progressiveSMods",
  "QualityCaptains",
  "assortment_of_things",
  "randomweapons",
  "refitfilters",
  "rotcesrats",
  "niko_SOTFMoreCombatObjectives",
  "SCY",
  "secretsofthefrontier",
  "SEEKER",
  "bb_plus",
  "m_sladd",
  "swp",
  "mayu_specialupgrades",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "hakkari3",
  "suitablestarsystems",
  "Sunrider",
  "supportships",
  "tahlan",
  "presmattdamon_takenoprisoners",
  "Terraforming & Station Construction",
  "TBJ",
  "TORCHSHIPS",
  "TTE",
  "TTSC",
  "underworld",
  "uaf",
  "US",
  "unthemedweapons",
  "UGH",
  "niko_morePlanetaryConditions",
  "XhanEmpire",
  "yunru_arsenal",
  "yunru_cunt",
  "yunru_ht",
  "yunruhullmods",
  "yunru_midline_expansion",
  "yunru_ose",
  "yunru_pirate_collection",
  "yunruworlds",
  "yunrucore",
  "audio_plus",
  "BoxUtil",
  "shaderLib",
  "tahlanadditions"
]}

[Alex_Sans]

DefiasOne can you please tell me if it still persists after this patch?

0.7.3 patch:

Added "ALWAYS_PANIC" to Ironhog and removed "CARRIER" from Alliance Carrier (experimental, to maybe improve their AI behavior in combat)

Fixed the Short Range Warp, Blue Behemoth Suite and Crimson Brigade having the possibility of being gone instead of replaced when "removed."

[TheBurningOnes]

removed "CARRIER" from Alliance Carrier (experimental, to maybe improve their AI behavior in combat)

You could just add COMBAT tag to it instead of remove CARRIER entirely

[Alex_Sans]

did you... not notice that it always had COMBAT tag?