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Author Topic: Help me understand markets & raids  (Read 2143 times)

Hal900x

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Help me understand markets & raids
« on: March 11, 2022, 10:49:00 PM »

So I undertook my first raid today. My biggest seller is drugs, I am the biggest drug dealer in the sector. I raided Chicomoztoc because they were in the top competition. These pointless drug wars are tragic. However, they actually had a shortage going on when I showed up. So, questions:

- How can they be a big producer with a shortage...is the market info averaged over a period of time, rather than instantaneous info?
- How are they a producer without being a free port?
- Are drugs, as a smuggled commodity, an exception with regards to raiding?

I'm wondering if raiding of this type is really worth doing. I certainly invested some time into it.
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DirectionsToL3Please

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2022, 12:25:23 AM »

Several of these questions might be answered just by going to your colony and clicking on the good in question.  Compare, for example, the production of drugs at Chicomoztoc (probably 5, like in my game) with its consumption (probably 8, like in my game) and you'll see why there's a local shortage.

As to whether they're an exporter, yes, they are.  Goods are abstracted to approximate mere orders of magnitude, so - while the numbers probably don't line up *exactly* like this, it'll be correct in broad strokes - producing 100,000 of a thing while demanding 100,000,000 of it would indeed leave you at a shortage, if your incoming shipments either could not meet demand (in my game, there are no 8-magnitude suppliers) or were interdicted one way or another.  So while Chicomoztoc applies 100,000 (or whatever the 5 is meant to represent, you understand) to its own needs, it can also apply 100,000 to supply because you can supply several 5-magnitude demands before approximating a 6-magnitude demand.

Is raiding worth doing? Well, if you want to be Space Medellin, then it's good to take out the competition but generally speaking if you can just out-produce them by an order or two then the difference of hitting their supply will be fairly minimal.  Raiding is probably more valuable as an asset for inducing instability.

edit: upon re-reading I see I managed to write all that while only answering two of your four questions. Sorry.
Smuggling occurs even if you're not a free port, but you can only directly profit from smuggling if you're a free port.
I don't believe drugs are an exception to the general raiding rules - supply and demand work like other goods, and instability is tied more to the industry than the production itself though there's obviously a direct penalty for running shortages
« Last Edit: March 12, 2022, 12:31:06 AM by DirectionsToL3Please »
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Hal900x

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2022, 01:04:22 AM »

Several of these questions might be answered just by going to your colony and clicking on the good in question.  Compare, for example, the production of drugs at Chicomoztoc (probably 5, like in my game) with its consumption (probably 8, like in my game) and you'll see why there's a local shortage.

As to whether they're an exporter, yes, they are.  Goods are abstracted to approximate mere orders of magnitude, so - while the numbers probably don't line up *exactly* like this, it'll be correct in broad strokes - producing 100,000 of a thing while demanding 100,000,000 of it would indeed leave you at a shortage, if your incoming shipments either could not meet demand (in my game, there are no 8-magnitude suppliers) or were interdicted one way or another.  So while Chicomoztoc applies 100,000 (or whatever the 5 is meant to represent, you understand) to its own needs, it can also apply 100,000 to supply because you can supply several 5-magnitude demands before approximating a 6-magnitude demand.

Is raiding worth doing? Well, if you want to be Space Medellin, then it's good to take out the competition but generally speaking if you can just out-produce them by an order or two then the difference of hitting their supply will be fairly minimal.  Raiding is probably more valuable as an asset for inducing instability.

edit: upon re-reading I see I managed to write all that while only answering two of your four questions. Sorry.
Smuggling occurs even if you're not a free port, but you can only directly profit from smuggling if you're a free port.
I don't believe drugs are an exception to the general raiding rules - supply and demand work like other goods, and instability is tied more to the industry than the production itself though there's obviously a direct penalty for running shortages


I did my colony stats, that's also where I saw my competition listed by clicking down into the goods in question. However, I think I confused "production" with "exports". So I was thinking the Producers tab denoted exports. Is that correct?
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DirectionsToL3Please

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2022, 01:12:37 AM »

Yeah, it should be that Production == Exports.  It is the case at all player colonies, anyway, and I think the faction colonies play by the same rules that player colonies use.
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Megas

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2022, 06:28:50 PM »

If your colonies use Free Port, Hegemony and Luddic Church will attack them.  The other major factions attack competitors.
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Hal900x

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2022, 10:03:25 PM »

If your colonies use Free Port, Hegemony and Luddic Church will attack them.  The other major factions attack competitors.

Thanks, I was aware of that. But the planet isn't rich in resources other than Organics, and drugs were the way to go. Got a Biofactory installed and I'm basically the Sector's drug cartel. And like the cartel, I'm heavily armed.
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FenMuir

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2022, 06:01:28 PM »

- How can they be a big producer with a shortage...is the market info averaged over a period of time, rather than instantaneous info?
They could have
a) suffered a Pather attack on the industry producing the commodity,
b) been raideded recently, or
c) didn't have the prerequisites for a commodity's production.
- How are they a producer without being a free port?
a) Drugs are also produced by population. Larger population equates to more drugs produced even when not a free port.
- Are drugs, as a smuggled commodity, an exception with regards to raiding?
Smugglers still smuggle. A free port just gains income from said smuggling.
I'm wondering if raiding of this type is really worth doing. I certainly invested some time into it.
You want to know what your market share is. Go to colonies. Click on commodities (the right hand panel). This will tell you what your market share is. By taking a competitor's industry out of commission, you artificially increase your own market share. This grants you more money until they're back online.

Is it worth it? Well, are you at war with them? If not, you're probably better off spamming quests to make money or buying your own product and selling it elsewhere for a massive profit.

In most of my playthroughs on youtube, I've sold drugs under the faction name of Drug'R'Us.

Supplies and fuel are probably more profitable overall, though.
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Hal900x

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2022, 10:02:42 PM »

- How can they be a big producer with a shortage...is the market info averaged over a period of time, rather than instantaneous info?
They could have
a) suffered a Pather attack on the industry producing the commodity,
b) been raideded recently, or
c) didn't have the prerequisites for a commodity's production.

My question was as this relates to what you actually see in the commodities drill-down screen. For example, a producer could be shown as currently exporting, with a large market share. But in real time, they are actually suffering a shortage. So that particular row appears to be incorrect. For example, currently Chicomoztoc is shown to be exporting 5 units. The mouseover popup for that row states the are producing 7, and need 8. That's an overall shortage of 1 unit. So how are they exporting 5 units?

PS: some of the info is truncated. Is there a way to expand the popup to see the full text?

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« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 10:09:47 PM by Hal900x »
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DirectionsToL3Please

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2022, 02:47:01 AM »

So how are they exporting 5 units?
Exports can be capped by accessibility. Any chance the colony has a low accessibility rating for whatever reason?  As to how they're exporting any at all, that's because of how supply values are abstracted in the game.
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Exasperation

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Re: Help me understand markets & raids
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2022, 01:12:02 AM »

It doesn't say that they're producing 7, it says that 7 are available there - it produces 5 (4 base + 1 from administrator skill) and imports enough that's produced elsewhere to get up to 7 (it wants 8, but that truncated line says that the highest production anywhere is only 7, so it's impossible for imports to improve the value above that number).  Because of the game's trade abstraction the amount you export doesn't affect the local supply, so exporting all 5 of the locally produced units still leaves it with 5 units locally.  However, the same abstraction means that to go from 5 units to 7 units you have to import 7 units from a single source that produces that many units on its own, and no number of producers of 7 units each is ever sufficient to import 8 units from - there could be 10^8 producers of 7 units each and it still wouldn't add up to a production volume of 8 units.
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