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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT  (Read 10402 times)

Igncom1

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2022, 04:08:33 AM »

Honestly a full Luddic playthrough sounds like it'll be a blast!

I already like my Hegemony heavies, but nothing quite beats the feeling of crushing mindless automata with faith, steel, and antimatter!
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Serenitis

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2022, 10:57:40 AM »

faith, steel, and antimatter
*yoink!*
[close]
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Igncom1

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2022, 11:23:11 AM »

Ludd be praised!  ;D
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2022, 01:02:38 PM »

I am dying to try the ship out. It is so cool. The crew requirements are massive and i kinda tremble at the thought on paying 40000 credits a month on crew salary alone. No regrets though. Something with so much dakka  should be worth it.
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Megas

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2022, 01:57:22 PM »

I would think crew casualties would be a bigger problem if the ship dies a lot.  Without shields, Invictus looks like a capital-sized Vanguard.  Yes, it has the flak system, but that does not seem like a very reliable and sustainable defense.

Come to think of it, it would be nice if Invictus becomes a zombie ship like Vanguard and Derelicts (with Rugged Construction).  Also maybe have a built-in hullmod, perhaps Blast Doors for free, to mitigate crew death.

Invictus looks like a prime candidate for Efficiency Overhaul to slash crew requirements.

Starsector needs more zombie ships, especially human ships, but I would not mind smaller Derelicts getting buffed to usefulness like Rampart was.

I plan to use Invictus as the ultimate personnel transport.  I occasionally use Onslaught as crew and marine transports.  Invictus will be even better for simply hauling people.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 01:59:55 PM by Megas »
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2022, 02:27:32 PM »

Seems to me like it's a perfect candidate for xyphos. Get 4 burst pd with 360 coverage to make up for the times when canister flak is on cooldown.

Actually, I don't know why it doesn't just come with 2 hangars, like yeah you have the option of NOT taking converted hangar but would you really? You spend a mere 20 OP and get 2 fighter bays without the downsides of a normal converted hangar. If your build isn't of taking advantage of that then you messed up. Might as well just give us the 2 hangars and take 20 OP off the ship, then it would only need 3 built-in hullmods instead of 4.
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Megas

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2022, 03:53:51 PM »

Actually, I don't know why it doesn't just come with 2 hangars, like yeah you have the option of NOT taking converted hangar but would you really? You spend a mere 20 OP and get 2 fighter bays without the downsides of a normal converted hangar. If your build isn't of taking advantage of that then you messed up. Might as well just give us the 2 hangars and take 20 OP off the ship, then it would only need 3 built-in hullmods instead of 4.
It may have an OP total balanced around not having fighters.  If it gets Vast Hangar and fighters, it may not afford everything else like guns, missiles+Racks+ECCM (but seeing the Church will probably favor Pilum spam, they may not need Racks and ECCM), sort of like normal warships with Converted Hangar.

Or maybe player has other carriers and carrier skills, and does not want to ruin their skill bonuses with extra bays from Invictus.

I assumed Invictus would have no fighters by default, and I doubt the Church will use Xyphos in their fleets.  Xyphos is the only PD option for carriers.  (Mining Pods are more like moving barrier field than PD drones.)
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Dri

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2022, 04:21:42 PM »

At 60,000 hull and 11,000 armor when properly built, the only threat to a player's Invicti is gonna be harpoon/reaper spam. Or being surrounded, and you're probably going to lose anyway if you're letting your capitals get surrounded.

Seriously, 60,000 hull is like meme mod super ship levels of hull. Then stack 11,000 armor @ 1,100 armor resistance...yeah. If you can keep the reapers and mass harpoon spam off them, you aren't going to lose one.
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Kos135

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2022, 09:39:08 PM »

At 60,000 hull and 11,000 armor

11,000 armor sounds amazing but it's ablative armor. From the blog entry introducing the Invictus - https://fractalsoftworks.com/2022/03/18/uniquifying-the-factions-part-1/

Thus: the ship gets an Ablative Armor hullmod, which reduces its armor strength by 90%, just for the purposes of the armor-damage-reduction calculation. This means that a wide array of weapons are able to deal reasonable damage to it, but the armor still provides a respectable amount of directional protection.

Can someone who understands the math behind armor strength elaborate on how strong the Invictus' ablative armor will be? I believe armor's damage reduction increases with its value (more armor = stronger armor). How well would the Invictus' armor stack up versus, say, the Onslaught's armor? Will the reduced strength of ablative armor make it more comparable to hull than regular armor?


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TaLaR

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2022, 10:21:47 PM »

You could interpret these values in reverse. As 1100 armor, but takes only 10% damage making it much harder to fully strip. And with 60k hull you are obviously not killing the ship with just leak-through damage before armor is stripped.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 10:24:16 PM by TaLaR »
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Grievous69

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2022, 11:48:04 PM »

Actually, I don't know why it doesn't just come with 2 hangars, like yeah you have the option of NOT taking converted hangar but would you really? You spend a mere 20 OP and get 2 fighter bays without the downsides of a normal converted hangar. If your build isn't of taking advantage of that then you messed up. Might as well just give us the 2 hangars and take 20 OP off the ship, then it would only need 3 built-in hullmods instead of 4.
If you take a closer look at the ship, you'll see that almost everything on it has a higher than average value. Like you said, a Converted Hangar will add a lot to this ship for an average cost, and so will armour and hull boosting hullmods. And add every single large ballistic being cheaper by 10 OP you can see how the ship is built around that tight OP budget. I sincerely doubt you'll be able to comfortably mount 2 Xyphos wing unless you really give up something else.
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smithney

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2022, 12:55:28 AM »

If you take a closer look at the ship, you'll see that almost everything on it has a higher than average value. Like you said, a Converted Hangar will add a lot to this ship for an average cost, and so will armour and hull boosting hullmods. And add every single large ballistic being cheaper by 10 OP you can see how the ship is built around that tight OP budget. I sincerely doubt you'll be able to comfortably mount 2 Xyphos wing unless you really give up something else.
This is what I'm looking forward to the most. Just what do you choose to save on and how do you cover for it. Invictus smells like a lot of viable decisions to be made and that makes it beautiful. Only Conquest really comes close in this regard.
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Igncom1

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2022, 01:00:30 AM »

Here is hoping it won't be as controversial as the legion for being too compromising with it's builds  ;D
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smithney

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2022, 02:06:42 AM »

Here is hoping it won't be as controversial as the legion for being too compromising with it's builds  ;D
I don’t get how that is the thing when Legion is advertised as being badmouthed for being too compromising. Invictus is telegraphed as an outdated pile of highly dangerous scrap, yet we can bet someone somewhere is gonna complain that it’s not an omnidestructive mowing machine -_-
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Amoebka

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Re: New vanilla DREADNOUGHT
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2022, 02:23:07 AM »

Seems to me like it's a perfect candidate for xyphos. Get 4 burst pd with 360 coverage to make up for the times when canister flak is on cooldown.

Actually, I don't know why it doesn't just come with 2 hangars, like yeah you have the option of NOT taking converted hangar but would you really? You spend a mere 20 OP and get 2 fighter bays without the downsides of a normal converted hangar. If your build isn't of taking advantage of that then you messed up. Might as well just give us the 2 hangars and take 20 OP off the ship, then it would only need 3 built-in hullmods instead of 4.

Every cruiser in the game is a perfect candidate for Xyphos. Like yeah you have the option of NOT taking converted hangar but would you really? Might as well just give everyone a hangar and take 15 OP off the ships.

(Unironically)
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