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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Crew Replacer  (Read 100467 times)

MrNage

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2022, 02:40:25 PM »

Any thoughts on how to use this to add a "passenger" crew replacer? I'm essentially just looking for a way to have a stack count against the personnel count of fleet, but not get counted for raids, colonization, etc.

Well, this mod replaces existing vanilla personnel, I am not sure if it it could be used to create personnel exclusively tasked with brand new functions or jobs.
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2022, 03:25:53 PM »

Well, this mod replaces existing vanilla personnel, I am not sure if it it could be used to create personnel exclusively tasked with brand new functions or jobs.
If there is a way to set or change the values of the number of crew in a fleet and what percent of required skeleton crew you have with code, then it is possible for me to add a way to do so with crew replacer.
Edit: what I'm trying to say is that if it's possible, crew replacer can be made to do it. Im just bad at saying that.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 03:48:50 PM by alaricdragon »
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kadu522

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2022, 03:00:26 PM »

I have a bug to report.

It seams like crew replacer does not take into account incressed raid effectiveness from ships when calculateing marine losses.

The raid strenght its uneffected but then it say's i have a much lower combat strenght total. say's that i lost say 70 marines as intended but i actualy lost around double that.
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2022, 06:47:03 PM »

I have a bug to report.

It seams like crew replacer does not take into account incressed raid effectiveness from ships when calculateing marine losses.

The raid strenght its uneffected but then it say's i have a much lower combat strenght total. say's that i lost say 70 marines as intended but i actualy lost around double that.
Thank you for the report. A partly rework is planned for the raiding parts of my mod, to fix some other issues. This will be added to the lists of fixes to do. Soon hopefully, it will be fixed
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HopeFall

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2023, 02:01:13 PM »

Does any mod use this yet?
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2023, 02:16:24 PM »

Does any mod use this yet?
Right now the only mod I know of that use this is AI-Retrofits. Although nexerlin added invasion support for crew replacer recently, but that's not really using it, just enabling others to use it better.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2023, 02:50:51 PM by alaricdragon »
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HopeFall

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2023, 02:57:59 PM »

Got it! It does sound like amazingly useful. Just don't want to bloat my save with stuff yet, but am looking forward to see mods using it.
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2023, 03:00:03 PM »

Got it! It does sound like amazingly useful. Just don't want to bloat my save with stuff yet, but am looking forward to see mods using it.
I can understand this. Goodness knows my saves are bloated enough as is. I two am looking forward to people using this utility more.
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mark.sucka

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2023, 09:01:14 PM »

Any thoughts on how to use this to add a "passenger" crew replacer? I'm essentially just looking for a way to have a stack count against the personnel count of fleet, but not get counted for raids, colonization, etc.
i am somewhat unsure what you mean.
if you are talking about adding new 'crew' to the 'crew storage' of a fleet, I have no clue how that works, but crew replacer could likely work with it if I know how.
if you are talking about having 'crew' to crew your ships, I also don't know how that works, but crew replacer could also get that to work if I knew how.
you also mention not having a crew type count for raids and colonization (colonization is also not yet supported.). getting a 'crew' to not do a job is very simple task, as every job has its own set of 'crew' that is allowed to do said job, to allow for a lot of flexibility in deciding what a crew can do and how good at it they are. in effect, how you do this is you only add your 'crew' to jobs you want them to do.

for real though, I don't quite understand what you are asking. would you be willing to elaborate?
(also if you do happen to have any ideas at all how to do things like change the number of crew storage that is used in a fleets crew storage, or the number of available crew for ships in a fleet, I would be very grateful if you shared so I could add that to crew replacer)

You never got a reply to this from the OP, but I think I sort of understand what the OP was going for and had a similar thought.

In my mind, a "passenger" commodity could exist, which occupies personnel space capacity similar to crew and marines, but these "passengers" serve no useful functions that either crew or marines have.  Instead, these "passengers" would provide a credit income per month.  Perhaps not as high as a standard crew costs, but something ($2 or $5 per month maybe).

In this way, the player could operate sort of a space tourism operation.  Use your excess crew space on your ships to show non-combatants the wonders of the sector, and help offset the costs of operating your fleet.  You would pay a commodity cost per passenger you take on of say $100 (which in an RP sense could be thought as an insurance premium in the event the passenger is killed in action).  If you no longer wanted to keep holding passengers, you could sell these off to stations.  The price variability would add another RP dynamic -- buying passengers at $80 on a crappy planet and selling them for $120 at a better planet is simply a transportation fee the passenger is willing to pay to get to a better world.  Operating with passengers is a gamble that A) you can keep passengers alive long enough to earn back their purchase cost in monthly income and B) that if you need the space for actual crew or marines and need to sell off passengers, that you have brought them to a world they value more than the world from which you initially acquired them.

As an example of how this could play out; your fleet is a paragon and a starliner.  350 required crew, 2500 maximum crew.  Bring along 500 actual crew to operate both ships and have reserves for potential losses, at a monthly cost of $5,000.  Carry 100 marines just in case for raids or bar missions, at a monthly cost of $2,000.  Bring along 1900 "passengers" willing to pay $5 a month, for an income of $9,500.  In total, your fleet generates $2,500 a month of income, which might be enough to pay for the paragon's officer salary.

I see NPC "tourism fleets" in my playthrough, but to be honest I have no idea if this is vanilla or Nex or IndEvo content.  But the concept is already sort of operating out there already for NPCs to take advantage of, so it would make sense for this sort of secondary income stream to be available to the player too.

The main fundamental difference and challenge to what crew replacer does, is that AI retrofits creates cargo commodities, whereas it would be most appropriate to create a personnel commodity with this item type.
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2023, 10:28:22 AM »

In my mind, a "passenger" commodity could exist, which occupies personnel space capacity similar to crew and marines, but these "passengers" serve no useful functions that either crew or marines have.  Instead, these "passengers" would provide a credit income per month.  Perhaps not as high as a standard crew costs, but something ($2 or $5 per month maybe).
I understand. Your talking about a crew job that handles crew storage use, and a way to have crew use a wadge (negative wage in this case).
The crew storage is on the list of things I want in crew replacer, although it's not yet implemented.
As for crew replacer handprint credit cost per month? Maybe I'll add something like that. It depends on if credit cost is something one can already do easily without crew replacer or, or if the game requires a utility to handle changes in income sources.
But ya, I think I understand. Thank you for the explanation.
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HopeFall

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2023, 06:14:00 PM »

I almost feel the above suggestion should be relegated to certain special ships and hull mods. I know there's some unique ships that add resources by having them in dock somewhere (some sort of paragon with a special farm thing in the middle). Space tourism is cool, but sounds more like something a mod similar to Space Trucking should handle. Technically, you can already act as a ferry service by taking people from a market that sells crew cheap, to a market that buys them for a lot.

I do think it's an interesting concept though. But I'm not sure it make functional sense. You're trading storage for passive income - why not do that for Crew, Storage, and Fuel? Because it doesn't feel balanced/makes little sense. Those passengers are going to want to get off, and certainly aren't going to continue paying premium cash forever to stand aboard a ship for eternity.
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2023, 10:53:00 PM »

I almost feel the above suggestion should be relegated to certain special ships and hull mods. I know there's some unique ships that add resources by having them in dock somewhere (some sort of paragon with a special farm thing in the middle). Space tourism is cool, but sounds more like something a mod similar to Space Trucking should handle. Technically, you can already act as a ferry service by taking people from a market that sells crew cheap, to a market that buys them for a lot.

I do think it's an interesting concept though. But I'm not sure it make functional sense. You're trading storage for passive income - why not do that for Crew, Storage, and Fuel? Because it doesn't feel balanced/makes little sense. Those passengers are going to want to get off, and certainly aren't going to continue paying premium cash forever to stand aboard a ship for eternity.
Some good suggestions here, but I feel the need to remind everyone, that crew replacer is a simple library. Its not going to add a inter passenger cruse liner system to the game itself, just (hopefully) enable someone else to do so with a little more ease, and a little more mod compatible.
That being said, feel free to discuss ideas for crew replacer here if you feel like sharing. Seeing what people are trying to use this for helps me make improvements and understand the shortcomings of my mod.
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mark.sucka

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2023, 10:24:58 AM »

I think the best enhancements Crew Replacer could be updated to include would be the 2 functions you're already aware of

1)  The ability to actually replace crew :)  Some sort of "Android Crew"-equivalent item that AI Retrofits can create using various commodities like metals, transplutonics, and perhaps organics and food for variety.  Which when assembled provides a functional equivalent for meeting skeleton crew requirements in ships, yet costs $0 in wages.  Perhaps balanced around costing significantly more in production inputs than buying a crew would otherwise cost, thereby only being economical if you can keep your ships alive and not lose these super-expensive "crew" members.  Adding the AI retrofit hullmod on a ship does remove the need for crew, but it has a few unintended side-effects with how the game processes things.  Namely, other hullmods that should increase the crew requirements of a ship no longer increase such cost, and ALL crew loses for a ship are limited to the maximum of the skeletal crew.  So you can launch a condor with expanded deck crews into a fight with 2 talon wings, watch them get chewed up repeatedly in an extended fight, and find that despite 200 talons being blown out of space that there were 0 crew deaths.  Which means that one of the main downsides to using talons (excessive crew loses, which 2 crew is just as expensive as 1 supply) is negated.

2) Full integration with Nex to be able to use combat drones for planetary invasions.
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alaricdragon

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Re: [0.95.1a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2023, 02:08:57 PM »

I think the best enhancements Crew Replacer could be updated to include would be the 2 functions you're already aware of

1)  The ability to actually replace crew :)  Some sort of "Android Crew"-equivalent item that AI Retrofits can create using various commodities like metals, transplutonics, and perhaps organics and food for variety.  Which when assembled provides a functional equivalent for meeting skeleton crew requirements in ships, yet costs $0 in wages.  Perhaps balanced around costing significantly more in production inputs than buying a crew would otherwise cost, thereby only being economical if you can keep your ships alive and not lose these super-expensive "crew" members.  Adding the AI retrofit hullmod on a ship does remove the need for crew, but it has a few unintended side-effects with how the game processes things.  Namely, other hullmods that should increase the crew requirements of a ship no longer increase such cost, and ALL crew loses for a ship are limited to the maximum of the skeletal crew.  So you can launch a condor with expanded deck crews into a fight with 2 talon wings, watch them get chewed up repeatedly in an extended fight, and find that despite 200 talons being blown out of space that there were 0 crew deaths.  Which means that one of the main downsides to using talons (excessive crew loses, which 2 crew is just as expensive as 1 supply) is negated.

2) Full integration with Nex to be able to use combat drones for planetary invasions.

1) if its possible, I will be adding the ability for crew replacer to change what items can crew ships/fighters at some point. its not possible yet though.
(slightly off topic here, but I see no reason not to talk about it), I have considered the possibility of having a android type of crew in AI-Retrofits at some point, but have discarded such plans. at least for now. what I plan to do is have the AI-Retrofit hull mod actually have its cost change in some way when you add or remove extra crew requirements for whatever reason.

2) nexerlin invasions do in fact support crew replacer now. although, the release version of AIRetrofits is not yet updated for this, the alpha version is almost ready for release, and it does have its combat robots fight in invasions. expect it to be out in a week or two. provided nothing goes wrong again....
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TalRaziid

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Re: [0.96a] Crew Replacer
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2023, 04:35:55 PM »

Is there a tutorial for dummies on how to make a new troop type using this library? I desire to make mech troops and giant crab troops
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