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[Flet]

When respecs were put in the game instantly transformed into one of respecing. This mechanic informs the player more so than any statement of intent that you are now supposed to make use of the respec feature. It feels bad when some mechanic in a game is under or over used. It feels bad when one included playstyle is obviously superior or inferior. All the missing approaches that could be in the game do not feel as bad in their absence as a single included approach that is clearly out of balance. When a game is balanced the possibilities feel genuine and the player feels good. The playing of the game becomes a kind of exploration. When the game is not balanced the possibilities feel forced - to do something other than optimal requires some force of will, to subvert your instinct and desires to explore the possibilities of the game, to know you are playing the game wrong.

Once respecs existed it did not become a question of whether or not to use it, but how. The entire approach to the game has to be reconfigured due to this possibility. Unless perfectly balanced it will feel bad - either though being a mechanic that is to be ignored entirely and become a glaring flaw in the game system if it is too harsh to ever use it, or a mechanic that invalidates the purpose of choice in skill selection entirely because you can change them at will. And it must be perfectly balanced, 'good enough' will still feel bad.

To advise OP to add more skill points or story points is no different from saying have no respec mechanic and to just edit your save if you want to. Its not a good solution.

[Megas]

No, the premise is backward.

The skill system discourages frequent respec. That's why it costs a story point to do so.

And that is a problem because it is too much grinding to fix mistakes or even just to have variety in playstyle if I quickly bore of my current one, and fixing mistakes is story points robbed from fueling s-mods for more ships and to satisfy the absurd and asinine 2^n costs of improving multiple colonies.  Story points is the Starsector name of Vespene Gas - currency to be spent on upgrading your faction assets.

The game encourages respec because flagships and fleets want different skills to be the best they can be.  It is not as bad as the previous 0.95a releases with the mutually exclusive xor skill system, but it is still there.  However, the current respec cost hurts if someone wants to change his flagship and/or fleet frequently but does not because he wants to save up story points to spend them on more important things.  So, yes, the game also discourages respec at the same time.

Having mechanics that both encourage and discourage respec at the same time does not feel good.

I don't see it as a problem that the player needs to spend a story point to respec. It means "something", but is not an onerous cost. A story point is fairly cheap. At the early levels, you get a lot of them quickly. After level 15, when you can hit Ordos fleets, you should be getting roughly say 1 to 4 story points per Ordos fleet (assuming your XP bar is in the green). If you can't tackle Ordos fleets yet, then you obviously get less from faction fleets, but they're also correspondingly easier. If you would rather put the story points into s-mods or whatever, well, then that's on you. If you're already at the point of wanting to min-max the game by doing lots of respecs to keep your flagship optimized while changing flagships frequently, then spending the 5 minutes it takes to kill an Ordos fleet shouldn't be a problem.

My fleet has been at max level for a long time, so early game is irrelevant.  I do not have an Ordos smasher fleet (yet) and my current fleet will wipe against double Ordos and likely struggle against full Ordos with all blue cores.  I fought weaker Ordos on par with or mildly stronger than endgame human bounties (and the rare double human bounties) and identified critical weaknesses in my fleet.  The only way I can fix that is to spend my five skill points to optimize my flagship and fleet (and probably fire most of my officers and train new ones - more tedious grinding), but doing so will lock in my fleet in an unsatisfying way.  (For example, getting skills for Onslaught flagship, but later, I want to pilot Ziggurat who does not need PD, or Paragon who does not need Ballistic Mastery, or Legion XIV who wants Missile Specialization to spam those missiles, or Doom who wants Systems Expertise to abuse Mine Strike but has little use for Missile Specialization.)

Skill point without refund, or even with refund with current slow bonus xp gain at max level, merely for metagame QoL (of changing your party members and reequipping the party skills), is an onerous cost.

To advise OP to add more skill points or story points is no different from saying have no respec mechanic and to just edit your save if you want to. Its not a good solution.

Totally agreed.  If I can "fix" the problem by altering the game (outside of in-game settings), I would not post the topic in the first place.

Starsector is too long a game to replay over and over again from the beginning.  If anything, it is an level and item grind much like Diablo II that encourages long term play of a single character, or at least a dedicated magic find character and a munchkin recipient character (and player probably wants several recipients).  But with how slow gaining story points are without an Ordos smasher fleet that can slaughter Ordos fleet for +500% xp, respecs that cost story point when player can swap flagships freely cost too much (takes too long to grind up another story point with fights that grant less than +100% xp).  Also, having the perfect Ordos smasher is effectively winning the game, unless the goal is to colonize the whole sector and wipe out the core worlds in the process.  (I do not have time now to grind for full sector colonization.)

[Salter]

I will add on that while it is a good limiter for more advanced players, people who are still learning the game will find it frustrating. Baring main story & post level cap story point bonuses, and when you get to that point you have already likely heavily invested into your primary fleet to the point that you cant really break away from it or invest into an entirely new fleet. And if you are a new player and lose those s-mod ships due to being destroyed or otherwise unrecoverable, it can be a run killer and something that can keep new players from jumping back in.

You can find s-mods on random derelict ships however, but what they spawn with is also random so its not like you can count on RNG to spot you a solid one for a secondary fleet.

[Sutopia]

If storypoint is too hard maybe start a new game?
The cost is there so you are committed to a build and need to think twice before doing so, while offering a properly priced leeway. Player controlled ship is way more powerful than an AI controlled one (most of the time) so switching flagship constantly is something that is extremely powerful and owe to cost a storypoint. IMO it’s one of the best bargain in all the ways you can spend a storypoint comparing to overpriced historian colony item spawn and exponential growth colony upgrade just for some useless credits.

[Megas]

If storypoint is too hard maybe start a new game?

Game is too long for that to be a good option too.  Restarting and playing to endgame or earning more story points at max level is a tedious grind akin to mindless Diablo II boss runs for goodies.

It does not feel good starting a new game after spending lots of time collecting all the blueprints, acquiring all the ships, and waiting several in-game years for my colonies to grow to size 6.  It also took several in-game years of continuous bounty grinding to pay off the massive bonus xp debt I accumulated (to boost my character and officers' leveling).

IMO it’s one of the best bargain in all the ways you can spend a storypoint comparing to overpriced historian colony item spawn and exponential growth colony upgrade just for some useless credits.

Having enough income to not need to grind other income sources is good too.  Also, improvements is not just about money, but also ways to overcome colony deficiencies, sometimes without the need of a colony item.

Not to mention if credits were so minor, no one would be trying to build Commerce and optimizing it, or stuffing as many AI cores and colony items into every building possible.

[Nimiety]

You can give yourself story points with the command console or by editing a file if its really that big of a deal to you

[Megas]

You can give yourself story points with the command console or by editing a file if its really that big of a deal to you

Again, if this was the "solution" I wanted to use, I would not have posted this topic in the first place.

[Andrius227]

This game has a lot of problems like that and the only way is to fix it yourself.

I increase the level cap for myself and officers. And i also increase the amount of officers and colonies i can have. Some people may call it cheating, but i dont think it is any worse than modding. I just hate these stupid limits. The ai’s have many more officers and colonies so i don’t see why i can’t have the same.

[FenMuir]

I've found that you get far more mileage out of skill points when they're used on improving the fleet and all ships instead of the player's.

You can fly be a super ship, or—and hear me out—you can have a fleet of maybe 10% better ships (which also helps you). The fleet will out perform you by a landslide.

[Megas]

I've found that you get far more mileage out of skill points when they're used on improving the fleet and all ships instead of the player's.

You can fly be a super ship, or—and hear me out—you can have a fleet of maybe 10% better ships (which also helps you). The fleet will out perform you by a landslide.

That is one way to play the game, one I may not want to be locked in for the rest of the game.  Then, after I bore of super fleet and want to pilot ace flagship, or just prioritize maximum campaign QoL with less combat related skills (like take nine Industry skills), I need to respec those fleet skills away, and if I previously took officer skills and BotB (premium fleet booster skills), I lose a ton of boosts bought by skill points (because those officers either lose their bonus skills or become mercs, and that third s-mod disappears without any bonus xp refunded).  Even if I did not take SP sink skills previously, I still lose a story point for reassigning skills because I got bored of my fleet and want to play something different now.

So it is not just ace flagship and officers' ships that need skills that vary by ship, but also between various playstyles.

Also, I prefer powerful flagship over powerful fleet because I want my flagship to feel responsive and powerful.  Flagship without any combat skills is sluggish and weaker than many endgame opponents, something that would give another arcade-like shump game terrible reviews for poor responsive controls or sluggish gameplay.  I consider Combat QoL for combat like Industry plus Navigation is QoL for the campaign.

Also, even if fleet skills are good, it hurts if I want to take it but cannot because I do not have skill points left to spare.  Wolfpack Tactics taunts me all the time.  I want to take it, but I do not have a point left after I put 5 in Combat, Technology, and Industry each.  (Automated Ships is the most expendable skill, but I like collecting ships, and automated ships is required to recover them in the first place.)

[Grievous69]

I've found that you get far more mileage out of skill points when they're used on improving the fleet and all ships instead of the player's.

You can fly be a super ship, or—and hear me out—you can have a fleet of maybe 10% better ships (which also helps you). The fleet will out perform you by a landslide.

Tell me you're bad at combat without telling me you're bad at combat 

And now for a serious response, the mileage HEAVILY depends on the player skill and the specific ship you're piloting. The same player piloting an Eagle compared to let's say a Gryphon is a night and day difference. Fleet buffing skills are always a safe bet, but I'd bet anything that a good player will win fights easier and quicker with some combat skills rather than none or very few. I specifically said "some" because there's really no need to get them all, you're wasting points in the end.

Ziggurat is an obvious example how the player alone can turn the tide of fights massively, though there's also ships with lower DP costs that become scary with enough skills.

[Megas]

Ziggurat is an obvious example how the player alone can turn the tide of fights massively, though there's also ships with lower DP costs that become scary with enough skills.

Problems with Ziggurat:
* Massive hangar queen that is only good for one round of fighting, maybe two if player built for max CR.

* Costs too much DP.  If player wants to use another capital (because his second favorite ship is also a capital), that can leave lopsided fleet distribution (your frigates or other sub-capitals are getting slaughtered by the bulk of enemy fleet because your two slowpoke ships guessed wrong and stuck halfway across the map)


Onslaught gets scary powerful with skills.  With max armor and PD, they feel like a 60 DP capital but has the price of a 40 DP one.  Once I decide on the Combat skills I want, I probably end up storing Ziggurat and breaking out the Onslaughts.  May replace some of the high-tech frigates with more Lashers and Centurions.

Conquest that takes Shield Shunt and all armor skills (in Combat and Industry) and hullmods can be as tough as a battleship and can brawl like one, but it is still inferior to Onslaught that does the same job better with more PD, armor, and firepower.

[Grievous69]

Yuup, Onslaught was my flagship in the last run and it worked wonders. This one I'm going Neural link Radiant and my god, I feel like I can take any fight in the game with it. Other ships in my fleet are basically irrelevant now, they're just there to aggro enemies.

[FenMuir]

That is one way to play the game, one I may not want to be locked in for the rest of the game.

I'll help you out since you obviously want the game to allow respecs for free.
Download the command console mod.
Hit CTRL+Backspace in game to bring up the command console.
Type AddStoryPoint 500
Congratulations, you don't need to worry about story points anymore. Run out from respeccing somehow, add another 500.

[Megas]

Yuup, Onslaught was my flagship in the last run and it worked wonders. This one I'm going Neural link Radiant and my god, I feel like I can take any fight in the game with it. Other ships in my fleet are basically irrelevant now, they're just there to aggro enemies.

The only time NL Radiant felt overpowered to me was when I took Systems Expertise (and other Combat mobility) for lots of skimming.  Even then, it only felt overpowered against large enemy ships.  Against a horde of frigates, it felt weaker than Onslaught with min-maxed PD and lots of missiles.  That said, it felt good quad skimming against large but fast ships like enemy AI Aurora.

What I dislike about NL Radiant is the massive skill point cost.  5 in Combat (for Systems Expertise), 8 in Tech (NL Radiant), and 2 in Industry (Ordnance Expertise).  None for Leadership or high Industry.  I feel like I can do nearly as well with a human ship, and still have more skill points for campaign skills or more combat skills.

That is one way to play the game, one I may not want to be locked in for the rest of the game.

I'll help you out since you obviously want the game to allow respecs for free.

This again!  Not interested in mods to fix game problems.

Yes, I want free, or at least cheap, respecs.  Spending hours to undo choices is not cheap.  It is an annoying grind like grinding Diablo bosses for rare items and possibly experience if level is near the cap.

Come to think of it, respec is somewhat like getting hit for permanent level drain by undead or demon.