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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 261789 times)

Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1920 on: April 30, 2021, 11:15:52 PM »

Your explanation is good, but has one flaw: almost every real build is operating at maximum vents already, so we can't analyze balance by getting to add more vents. There's nothing more to add. Its evaluating the efficiency of what to do with those vents that I was getting at with the efficiency numbers.

As an example, a Tempest without any skills or system or officer or anything (for ease of numbers) can get 355 flux dissipation with 10 vents and the hullmod. Running 2 pulse lasers gives 600 DPS vs shields and 600 flux for a deficit of 245 + shields. Running 1 Heavy blaster leaves them with 500 DPS vs shields and 720 FPS for a deficit of 365 + shields, and 8 free OP. Those free OP could be used for a lot of good things and this might even be a good build, but nothing is going to change the fact that the pulse lasers are doing more damage to shields while building up less flux.

For the Mjolnir its the same thing - its a much better anti-shield option than a Hephaestus, but for a given flux budget it has worse efficiency vs armor and hull. The hardest enemies in the game have really strong shields, so I agree with you thats the performance thats needed. But if the strongest enemies had really strong armor and hull, I would consider swapping. The gun is also always going to be used alongside other weapons unless the flux budget of a ship lines up perfectly which I don't think any do.
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Sinigr

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1921 on: May 01, 2021, 04:08:07 AM »

Your explanation is good, but has one flaw: almost every real build is operating at maximum vents already, so we can't analyze balance by getting to add more vents. There's nothing more to add. Its evaluating the efficiency of what to do with those vents that I was getting at with the efficiency numbers.

As an example, a Tempest without any skills or system or officer or anything (for ease of numbers) can get 355 flux dissipation with 10 vents and the hullmod. Running 2 pulse lasers gives 600 DPS vs shields and 600 flux for a deficit of 245 + shields. Running 1 Heavy blaster leaves them with 500 DPS vs shields and 720 FPS for a deficit of 365 + shields, and 8 free OP. Those free OP could be used for a lot of good things and this might even be a good build, but nothing is going to change the fact that the pulse lasers are doing more damage to shields while building up less flux.

For the Mjolnir its the same thing - its a much better anti-shield option than a Hephaestus, but for a given flux budget it has worse efficiency vs armor and hull. The hardest enemies in the game have really strong shields, so I agree with you thats the performance thats needed. But if the strongest enemies had really strong armor and hull, I would consider swapping. The gun is also always going to be used alongside other weapons unless the flux budget of a ship lines up perfectly which I don't think any do.
I do not have maximum vents with my blasters. At first I was also scared by the flux of blaster. Due to the low damage to the hull and armor of other guns, the decision was made to simply install blasters and get used to how it will be. Okey, it is better than other options.

Tempest. Two pulses have more shield, yes, but how long they will hit on strong armor, it is omg. Also i have one more option. Do not to use ships which can not support blasters.

Mjolnir maybe, if they would have weaker shields and stronger armor/hull. But we see strong shields, so...
Also, like for me, i see that better is to hunt averythyng with mjolnir, just put less weapons, full large slots with mjolnirs and full vents, it works, ok.

Goal is that there is no weapon diversity to make perfect universal fleet to hunt everyrhyng. Okey, you can play damaging hull for loooong, but... hm...

I do not speak about paragon, just weapon/armor mechanics and using of weapons at other ships.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 05:01:28 AM by Sinigr »
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Try to hunt it! ;)
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Retry

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1922 on: May 01, 2021, 07:49:01 AM »

Okey, maybe 1650 it is too high
Maybe?  1650 is more base armor than any ship in the game has except 1 (2 if accounting for variants), and you declared it to be an average value.
Quote
Also i use all medium slots with blasters,
Quote
I do not have maximum vents with my blasters.
I'm curious yet concerned as to what your builds look like.  That sounds eerily like the builds newbies show up with when asking why their guns aren't firing, and why are their flux bars full all the time...
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1923 on: May 01, 2021, 02:21:42 PM »

The high armor ships are usually slow and easy to hunt down after picking off their escorts. Once their escorts are dead, it's duck season!

On another note, the Resonator is interesting but feels very weak. Would be nice if fast missile racks helped reload it faster.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 03:03:35 PM by WeiTuLo »
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RustyCabbage

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1924 on: May 01, 2021, 08:57:47 PM »

This is really minor, so I don't feel like making a thread about it, but there are a couple strange things in the various faction files:

- The Hegemony does not know Locust SRM Launchers, nor Squall MLRS. Even the Pirates and Luddic Path know those blueprints.
- The Luddic Church knows the Antimatter Blaster, while the Hegemony does not. I assume this is because they make extensive use of Buffalo Mk.IIs, but the Hegemony also has access to Vigilances, Centurions, Sunders, Falcons, Eagles that suggest it would make sense for them to also know the blueprint.
- I think others have mentioned it before, but none of the factions know the Revenant or Phantom blueprints. Probably intentional at this point but I figure I'd mention it.
- You fixed the Fury not having an inflated hull frequency of 10 in the Tritachyon faction file, but should this not also apply to the Apogee?

Undead

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1925 on: May 02, 2021, 01:43:14 AM »

Question - will there be any hotfixes/updates soon? I want to update to RC15 from RC12 and start a fresh run, but if there will be another update in my RC15 run that will be somewhat annoying, I would rather wait a bit if there is an update on its way.
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Sinigr

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1926 on: May 02, 2021, 03:38:40 AM »

Okey, maybe 1650 it is too high
Maybe?  1650 is more base armor than any ship in the game has except 1 (2 if accounting for variants), and you declared it to be an average value.
Quote
Also i use all medium slots with blasters,
Quote
I do not have maximum vents with my blasters.
I'm curious yet concerned as to what your builds look like.  That sounds eerily like the builds newbies show up with when asking why their guns aren't firing, and why are their flux bars full all the time...

1650. Okey, key. Than calculate 100 armor, not 83 as I

All medium mounts with blasters. No maximum vents. That ship can hunt everything including remnants, and it has sane armor/hull damage. You shoot hull fast, no need to shoot it for half of hour with weak bullet weapons.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 03:42:43 AM by Sinigr »
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Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1927 on: May 02, 2021, 07:35:38 AM »

As far as I'm aware, most of the guns balanced in a way that standard cruiser sized target (sim Eagle) can not be gunned down in a standard overload duration (10 sec). It provides the need for the strike weapons and makes cruisers distinguishable from the destroyers.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1928 on: May 02, 2021, 06:19:31 PM »

After mining a triple Radiant Ordos fleet and the second Tesseract infested hypershunt to death with chained Doom flagship abuse (because I had nothing better at the time), I think I finally finished playing this release.  The only thing I have not done yet is develop a contact to spawn Tesseract bounties (for their weapons), but I do not feel like grinding for that.  I am writing a draft of a feedback post, though it is a mess at the moment.  I may try to finish and post the feedback recap "soon".
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Vanshilar

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1929 on: May 02, 2021, 10:13:19 PM »

Not sure if this is something new to 0.95a or not, but I've noticed a variety of AI stupidity. Currently using RC12. My fleet consists of me using an SO Aurora, with 4 SO Medusas and 4 Drovers. Yes I know SO is no longer possible via SP, but I don't think it matters here.

The Medusas have 2 dual autocannons, and either 1) 2 IR pulse lasers, a cryoblaster, and an ion pulser, or 2) an IR pulse laser, an ion cannon, a cryoflamer, and a heavy blaster.

The Drovers have spark/broadsword, 4 salamanders, and 2 light machine guns.

All officers are aggressive.

1. Medusas sent to capture an objective will retreat away from enemy frigates. I'm talking about 2 Medusas sent to the same objective deciding to run away from a lone Glimmer, letting the Glimmer capture the objective.
2. Medusas will overload a frigate and then back off instead of finishing it off. No other ships/fighters in the vicinity, and Medusas at low flux.
3. The Medusas seem to be much more timid than the Drovers, despite all having aggressive officers. Even when the whole fleet is ordered to attack a target, the Medusas will often hang back behind Drovers.
4. The Drovers meanwhile seem to have no problems drifting into multiple Brilliants, etc. Supposedly when armed with just missiles and point defense (LMG) they should be staying away (especially with the pilum bug -- I'm still using RC12), but no, they'll just saunter up to big ships. I've even seen a Medusa at low flux fleeing from a Fulgent, with a Drover drifting in behind the Fulgent, almost chasing it (except facing the wrong way). The Fulgent then gives up chasing the Medusa and then blows up the Drover.

I'm not sure what might be helpful for diagnosing these AI problems. Unfortunately Starsector doesn't have a playback feature, and since I'm concentrating on my flagship, usually by the time I notice the AI being stupid (which happens unpredictably -- it'll be okay for a while, then suddenly make stupid decisions) the screen wasn't on them beforehand so it's hard to tell what got them in that situation in the first place. I also don't know of a way to see what the AI is "thinking" at any given time. (I used to use the AI Flag Tool mod by Blothorn in 0.9.1a but haven't tried it for 0.95a.)

Generally speaking the AI seems to do fine in "small" situations. When I first started playing, the fact that frigates would juke around your projectiles, run behind your other ships to block you from hitting them, was fantastic. However it seems to make a lot of "strategic" errors once there are more ships, basically drifting away from the rest of the fleet unless you use a "Defend" command to leash it, getting itself cornered through bad positioning, not understanding that the Radiant is very dangerous and not drift toward it (Medusas will teleport away when flux is high, but Drovers just simply drift into range -- should it not realize that it's in the firing range of a capital ship?), etc. That leads to me spending a lot of time trying to save them instead of them taking care of themselves.

Edit: Attached are some screenshots of this happening. I have the Ship Direction Marker mod installed, which allows you to see what direction the ships were heading toward.

Screenshot037-min: The battle commands. Basically, at beginning of combat, I set them all to capture the lower left objective, and also set the defend waypoint. This way, after they capture the objective, they'll automatically defend the area and stay leashed (most of the time, anyway). At this point, the Radiant has made its way to the lower left, and I'm coming in from the right, with the main fleet vs fleet engagement already underway.

Screenshot036-min: This Drover is around 1000 su away from the Radiant, at full flux, yet heading full-speed toward the Radiant (you can see via the Ship Direction Marker icon where it's headed). Its engines were functioning, so this was an AI choice (and not the result of flameout); it changed course and started going straight for the Radiant right before the screenshot.

Screenshot038-min: Meanwhile, the Medusas are around 2500 su away from the Radiant, but actively backing off, despite being SO ships at 0 flux.

Screenshot040-min: This Medusa is also backing away with nearly 0 flux, despite having an easy target right in front of it that was just damaged. Is it that scared of the Glimmer's ion beam or something?

These kinds of AI mistakes make fleet combat very frustrating, especially when this game opts for a "player commands are more of suggestions than actual commands" approach to player control, plus the player is limited in how many commands can be given. In a typical RTS for example, the player can give commands to units at will and the units will follow the player's commands exactly, for better or for worse, so the units act as the player intends. This game's approach means that the units are more or less trying to "intuit" the player's intent, or more accurately, the player is trying to "intuit" what the AI might do since the AI won't directly obey the player. This may be good when the AI is reasonably well-behaved and predictable, but just leads to frustration when it's not.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 01:00:15 AM by Vanshilar »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1930 on: May 03, 2021, 02:28:37 PM »

Not sure if this is something new to 0.95a or not, but I've noticed a variety of AI stupidity. Currently using RC12.

(Hi - just super quick; I'm pretty sure the majority of what you're talking about AI-wise is fixed in RC15.)
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Dread Pirate Robots

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1931 on: May 03, 2021, 03:18:43 PM »

The only thing I have not done yet is develop a contact to spawn Tesseract bounties (for their weapons), but I do not feel like grinding for that.

I think this bounty only spawns once anyway, or at least that has been my experience and some people on discord agreed.

I think it's a little unfortunate and you should be able to do it multiple times, although I assume we're going to be seeing more of them at some point through some different mechanic.
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1932 on: May 03, 2021, 06:39:49 PM »

Not sure if this is something new to 0.95a or not, but I've noticed a variety of AI stupidity. Currently using RC12.

(Hi - just super quick; I'm pretty sure the majority of what you're talking about AI-wise is fixed in RC15.)

Alpha Core Radiant still gets a bit shy in RC15 when the two sim onslaughts start their annihilator rocket barrages. Usually starts happening at 1600 range (Bridge to Bridge?) when one Onslaught is almost fluxed out and the Radiant backs off to 1800-1850, drops shield and vents (with very little flux) and lets a couple rockets hit armor.

Outside of the sim there are very few rocket pods and there are lots of supporting ships guarding the flanks so it is far more aggressive. If I recall correctly, the Squalls can also spook it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 06:41:39 PM by WeiTuLo »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1933 on: May 03, 2021, 06:47:50 PM »

Alpha Core Radiant still gets a bit shy in RC15 when the two sim onslaughts start their annihilator rocket barrages. Usually starts happening at 1600 range (Bridge to Bridge?) when one Onslaught is almost fluxed out and the Radiant backs off to 1800-1850, drops shield and vents (with very little flux) and lets a couple rockets hit armor.

Outside of the sim there are very few rocket pods and there are lots of supporting ships guarding the flanks so it is far more aggressive. If I recall correctly, the Squalls can also spook it.

Right, missile-related behavior is entirely separate both from the bug that was present before and from its fix in -RC15.
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1934 on: May 03, 2021, 07:05:21 PM »

Thanks!
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