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Author Topic: Vanilla map size  (Read 3046 times)

koprus

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Vanilla map size
« on: January 27, 2022, 09:42:39 AM »

Is it just me or is a vanilla play-through way more enjoyable on a small size map?

Large normal map has a vast majority of just empty systems and travel times and logistics are just a slog.
Things feel different on a heavily modded campaign where there's so much stuff out there its actually more rewarding to play on large normal.

Any chance we can have a in-between medium size campaign option in the future?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 09:56:27 AM by koprus »
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Impetus

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2022, 12:34:23 PM »

Another issue with the normal map is that the fringes are kind of useless to survey, because the isolation penalty to accessibility makes the colony unprofitable compared to a colony close to the core. Even if you find a cryosleeper, or restore a [redacted], or find a perfect planet, if they're too far away from the core you're better of settling somewhere else. I'm aware that there is some kind of bonus to accessibility from having multiple colonies in the same system, but it's really hard to tell how much accessibility you gain from doing that.
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Megas

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2022, 01:24:15 PM »

The main problem I had with a fringe colony (before we had Janus Device) was excessive traveling.  Burnt lots of time and fuel go to core and back, and pirate and pather bases tend to be close to core.
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MrTwister

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2022, 02:28:28 PM »

With story points and alpha cores into megaports, free port and some fullerene spool even fringe colonies can have access above 160+%, I prefer to have my home system far out.

And yes, if you colonise 5-7 planets there accessibility will grow extra, you can probably squeeze up to 10%.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 02:30:30 PM by MrTwister »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2022, 03:15:31 PM »

However high you can get your accessibility on the edge of the sector by stacking every bonus in the game, you can get it that much higher being right next to the core. You definitely make way way more money and grow your colony much much faster if it is near the core.

It's still 100% worth exploring everywhere for all the colony items, blueprints and money you get from exploring/surveying, even if you aren't necessarily looking for a colony.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2022, 07:27:01 PM »

It's true you can grow faster in or near the core, unless you're colonizing a Cryosleeper system that happens to be on the edge.  In terms of growth rate, the biggest possible difference in terms of access is something like a -25% out on the edge of a normal vanilla map, to something like +42% in Duzahk.  Which translates to something like +6 growth difference.  Even a size 3 colony in a Cryosleeper system can hit +30 without much trouble, and +60 with a spare alpha core (with alpha core, the bonus is 20 times colony size).

I'll note even 3 unimpressive planets at the farthest point from the core, they can make over 1 million credits per month once they've been fully built up and reach size 6 (or over 370,000 with alpha administrators and no other items/cores).

Given colony size is a bigger factor in credits per month than starting accessibility, I'd typically rate colonizing a cryosleeper system that happens to have a gate as the best option (if you can find one), irregardless of distance from the core.   A gate system close to the core would then be the next best.

As for map size, small or normal both seem to have plenty to do for a vanilla campaign, and missions are definitely closer on average in a small map.  In terms of fun, I see no disadvantages to playing a vanilla campaign on a small map.

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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2022, 09:00:54 PM »

If you are trying to make colonies before you have 30 alpha cores, full colony items, and tons of money/story points to max out all the bonuses, accessibility is a much bigger issue.

I tried starting colonies early at like ~25 ly from the core with a cryosleeper nearby (I think closer to 10 ly though) and even after getting megaport + waystation online, the accessibility was sub 100 and dropped pretty low with pirate activity. They basically didn't make any money until size 5, and then it was like 50k or something. I'm sure if I committed to size 6 and slapped cores and items in everything, they would have been ok, but the process of getting there was annoying enough that I abandoned the save.
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Thaago

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2022, 09:50:37 PM »

... this is making me want to play a game on a small map now, as I haven't done that in forever! But I just got really good contacts that match my roleplay...
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SCC

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2022, 10:45:15 PM »

The issue with normal map is that it makes you experience hyperspace more, which isn't really a good thing. It also makes you explore more, which might give you more loot, but it takes longer and exploration isn't that hot, either. JD alleviates some of these issues, though.

Thaago

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2022, 11:39:23 PM »

Re: Exploration, the very first time I ever did deep exploration dives was an absolute blast. The atmosphere of going into systems and sailing past stars/pulsars to find things for the first time, and the pacing between dangerous nonstop combat remnant systems (or even sneaking because triple ping were too dangerous) and the empty relaxed systems was nice. Now that I've done it so many times the magic is somewhat gone, though I still moderately enjoy it. Only now instead of exploring to, well, explore, I'm exploring to find specific known things, which is more chore-like.
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SCC

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2022, 12:04:02 AM »

I always skip medium and high danger systems when exploring and come back with a warfleet. It's not worth risking your progress to get some item earlier, and you may be coming back to farm remnants anyway.
I don't remember enjoying exploration initially, as much as it didn't bother me back then, as I was still discovering the new content. It didn't take notice it's just a lot of flying around to get your rare (and now, even unobtainable otherwise) items or ships.

MrTwister

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2022, 04:59:29 AM »

I always skip medium and high danger systems when exploring and come back with a warfleet. It's not worth risking your progress to get some item earlier, and you may be coming back to farm remnants anyway.
I don't remember enjoying exploration initially, as much as it didn't bother me back then, as I was still discovering the new content. It didn't take notice it's just a lot of flying around to get your rare (and now, even unobtainable otherwise) items or ships.

Or you can take a stealthy fleet and just steal everything under their noses
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2022, 06:21:36 AM »

In regards to cryosleepers, I either colonize directly in system or don't and then ignore it for colonization decision making.  Certainly at the edge of the 10 ly circle isn't really game changing and even at 5 light years it is merely a nice perk, not a must have.  In system feels like it increases overall growth by like 500% or so, which means 1/5th in game time to get to size 6.

For exploration, a pure hound fleet, preferably with augmented drive field, auxiliary fuel tanks, safety overrides, and unstable injector, can generally ignore most enemy fleets just by running away.  If you want some derelict drone clearing power, throw in an s-modded SO + UI Tempest or two, although that will drop you to base burn 11.  Combine with Bulk Transport and Navigation skills.
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SCC

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Re: Vanilla map size
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2022, 06:36:26 AM »

Or you can take a stealthy fleet and just steal everything under their noses
If I have to change my exploration fleet anyway, might as well change to one that can fight and have some fun.