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Author Topic: High Scatter Amplifier builds  (Read 9309 times)

Megas

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2022, 07:33:06 PM »

For those with elite Point Defense, HSA Tactical Laser spam is the longest ranged hard flux attack for high tech ships without ballistic mounts.  Yes, it has less range and efficiency than IR Pulse Lasers, but if I want range (plus hard flux) above all else...

If I have elite PD, and want to use high-tech ships without ballistics, I might consider Tactical Lasers (in small and medium mounts) with IPDAI and HSA for maximum hard-flux range, at least on something like Wolf that needs the range.
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Goumindong

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2022, 03:20:05 PM »

So this topic has been dead for a while but i think i found a concept that works. Its not great. But its not bad. And its kind of player only. And there is kind of only one ship or two ships you can kind of make use of it on.

The things it works on is phase ships that have phase anchor so long as the pilot has elite field modulation(or is in the Ziggurat)

The reason is that with elite field modulation and phase anchor you can fire your beams, and phase to halve the beams cooldowns and then fire again effectively doubling their DPS in real time and trebling or quadrupling their DPS in game time. The problem that HSA solves is very good shield tanks. Even very well kinetic structured Ziggurats can start to falter against super tanked shields and if that happens then the enemy may be able to back out. This is very bad because you're not very fast in the Ziggurat but also because the phase anchor tachyon cycle naturally pushes your hard flux up.

The range reduction is a problem. But not necessarily that much of a problem. With the Ziggurat, tachyon lances in the forward slots still have decent range at 1,050. Which isn't that too far behind heavy needlers, which you will want to fit for this build as well because HN fits very well within the framework of phase anchor, having high burst and a long cooldown time. (unless you can get your hands on resonator MRMs)

The main example for me is testing against the sim paragon essentially skill-less (going for player controlled AI ships in this game and don't have any personal combat skills except the ones in tech yet). Without HSA the below fit* needs to vent in order to kill the sim Paragon. With HSA it does not.

*(just because of what I have access to 2x AMSRM, 2x Tach Lance, 1x Heavy Armor(built in), 1x ITU(built in), 2x Heavy Needler, 2x Resonator MRM, IEM, Phase Anchor, HSA [IEM for flavor and because i want to have a dumb low sensor profile]. With HSA removed you add a few more caps and some more vents.

Is this maybe a minor advantage? Yea. But if you need to eeek out every last power against like... doritos then it will be valuable.
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2022, 03:56:34 PM »

I recently found HSA is decent on tempest with graviton + ion beam. Consistent and efficient shield pressure at about the same range as its other weapon options and it has termination sequence for when it needs some punch.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2022, 04:17:43 PM »

It feels like if you are trying to solo big fleets with Zigg, range might be more valuable than in a 1v1, but I don't really enjoy playing that way enough to try it lol.

Any time I have tried to make HSA work (for the AI), I have found that all my other normal builds do as much or better. Usually even just removing HSA and putting the OP into something else is just as good as HSA, and intuitively, I know that reducing range by 1/2 puts the ship into much more dangerous situations. It's hard to see much value personally.

I recently found HSA is decent on tempest with graviton + ion beam. Consistent and efficient shield pressure at about the same range as its other weapon options and it has termination sequence for when it needs some punch.
Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.
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Goumindong

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2022, 04:31:28 PM »

It feels like if you are trying to solo big fleets with Zigg, range might be more valuable than in a 1v1, but I don't really enjoy playing that way enough to try it lol.

The range of the Tachyons is so far beyond the rest of your guns (unless you're using gravitons) in the med universal that the range penalty isn't that bad. And the Tachyons, while great at pegging small ships, will definitely falter against bigger ones.

I wouldn't use it for soloing but if you wanted to use it as primary damage when you had like, supporting frigates? Definitely has some value
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Candesce

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2022, 05:34:08 PM »

Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.
600 range, and the Ion Pulsar is the lowest-accuracy Medium Energy weapon, which you might care about for, like, frigate duels.

But at about 1/4 the DPS for the same flux over time, you'd better be shooting at a really evasive target, or really need that extra 100 range.
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2022, 05:44:14 PM »

Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.
The point of the ion beam is so they can't drop their shields and take the graviton on their hull, ion pulser isn't consistent enough for that purpose.
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Goumindong

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2022, 05:48:51 PM »

It feels like if you are trying to solo big fleets with Zigg, range might be more valuable than in a 1v1, but I don't really enjoy playing that way enough to try it lol.

Also if you are soloing the enemy will surround you pretty quickly. So i would not expect you to get a lot of value out of the extra range on the non HSA tachyons
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Igncom1

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2022, 01:01:57 AM »

Ion beam with 500 range is just a worse ion pulser. Gravitons are at least interesting with HSA though.
The point of the ion beam is so they can't drop their shields and take the graviton on their hull, ion pulser isn't consistent enough for that purpose.

Ironically I think in that instance works in the Ion Pulsers favour as the AI will often drop the shields and let ion shots in by accident.
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Amoebka

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2022, 04:35:48 AM »

HSA Graviton + Ion beam is effectively one LAC + a small ion cannon. That's less than a Centurion and you are paying 8 DP for it. The DPS is way too low.
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Megas

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2022, 08:07:26 AM »

If I want to solo fleets with Ziggurat (and I do not have Omega missiles), I want Ballistic Mastery to boost needler range, and the added range is worth it.  If I go down that path, I do not want to reduce range of the lances.  There are times when soft flux from lances do not matter.  Lances do not have too much more range than needlers boosted by Ballistic Mastery.

(I also want ePD for IR PL with more range and PD because motes alone are not always enough PD.)
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Schwartz

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2022, 01:22:00 PM »

I haven't yet found a HSA build that was not a shoehorn trying to "just make it usable, for the love of god", where other options weren't simply better. Such as not using HSA and having double the range. Range is far more valuable than flux type. Beams are not consistently dangerous enough that you want to brawl with them either. They're the spaghetti noodles of Starsector. They better be long and there better be a lot of them.
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Goumindong

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2022, 07:00:04 PM »

I haven't yet found a HSA build that was not a shoehorn trying to "just make it usable, for the love of god", where other options weren't simply better. Such as not using HSA and having double the range. Range is far more valuable than flux type. Beams are not consistently dangerous enough that you want to brawl with them either. They're the spaghetti noodles of Starsector. They better be long and there better be a lot of them.

Tacyon Lances out of a Phase Anchor'd Ziggurat may be the highest DPS weapons in the game. I estimate that "real time" that the cooldown of tachyon lances is about 1 second. So their DPS is about 1125 each per weapon.
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Schwartz

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2022, 07:16:59 PM »

I would never trade hard flux for half range on Tachyon Lances either, they don't need it as they spike shields anyway. HIL maybe, if it was Energy damage and not Explosive. HSA is just a very uncomfortable marriage with the weapons it alters, it doesn't really work.
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Amoebka

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Re: High Scatter Amplifier builds
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2022, 02:52:21 AM »

Tacyon Lances out of a Phase Anchor'd Ziggurat may be the highest DPS weapons in the game. I estimate that "real time" that the cooldown of tachyon lances is about 1 second. So their DPS is about 1125 each per weapon.

Yeah, and the higher the DPS, the less improtant hard flux is, because the enemy will overload before they can passively dissipate anyway.
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