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Author Topic: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?  (Read 8562 times)

Specht

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Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« on: January 16, 2022, 03:53:39 PM »

Augmented Engines (1SP) + Expanded Cargoholds (1SP) + Militarized Subsystems + Surveying Equipment OR High Resolution Sensors

Being a capital gives a massive bonus.

I am running an exploring and salvaging fleet with 3 of those. One with Surveing Equipment and 2 with HRS. The capital tanker also has HRS installed.

Using Makeshift Equipment and Containment procedures keeps operation cost low.

With one Apogee in Fleet every survey costs 5. Add 5 Salvage Rigs and you have a decent moneymaker. The sensor range is huge so you can see all the interesting stuff and enemy fleets from a huge distance. Basically this composition makes me never ditch resources and you can haul every tiny piece of cargo you find when you go exploring.

You can also get and fulfill those juicy 400k transport contracts.

Its the first time I tried a different approach instead of smuggling or fighting my way through the game and having a good time so far.

So yea.. in my opinion a good investment and a gamechanger once you get your first Atlas.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 03:59:57 PM by Specht »
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Nightstrasza

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2022, 04:02:25 PM »

You can only have 2 logistic hull mods and all you listed are logistic.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2022, 04:07:47 PM »

You can only have 2 logistic hull mods and all you listed are logistic.

They're using story points for 2 (the ones listed as 1 SP).  Story point hull mods don't count against the 2 logistic mod limit.

So yea.. in my opinion a good investment and a gamechanger once you get your first Atlas.

The Atlas and Prometheus logistic ships are definitely the pinnacle of pure logistics ships, especially if you're willing to put 2 s-mods on them each.  Maximum cargo/fuel in minimum ship slots and story point expenditures.

If you're going down the Industry tree anyways, consider the Bulk Transport skill instead of Militarized Subsystems.  Skipping the Militarized Subsystems, let's Bulk Transport apply it's +2 burn speed bonus to the ships.  Combined with Augmented Drive Field, that reaches burn 10 without Ox tugs.  It also leaves 3 logistics slots left (assuming 2 s-mods) for Expanded Cargo holds or Auxilliary fuel tanks, Surveying Equipment and High resolution Sensors.

They just have the issue of not being able to escape fights, so keep some story points on hand for emergencies if your combat escort is light. :)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 04:15:24 PM by Hiruma Kai »
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Thaago

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2022, 04:11:46 PM »

You can exceed the limit using S mods. [Edit] Ninj'ad! Both this and my next paragraph :D

This seems like an expensive but expansive trade fleet - I don't think I'd take it exploring just because the running costs in fuel and supplies would be pretty extreme compared to a light fleet. That said in terms of sheer hauling efficiency Atlas's can't be beat; their only downside imo is their in combat speed - if the player gets caught they either have to win or spend a story point as they will absolutely get killed in a retreat. I'm a little bit iffy on having 5 salvage rigs though, as they have diminishing returns.
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Low Settings

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2022, 06:38:55 PM »

Expanded cargo holds on a civilian ship like this makes it consume more supplies so I just put efficiency overhaul on it. Also consider that if you take bulk transport civilian ships get +2 burn level this includes Atlas, prometheus including their MK 2 variants so you may not need augemented drive field anymore nor more tug boats
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Nimiety

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2022, 07:28:54 PM »

I use buffalo transports when exploring or raiding, less sensor signature! But for running supplies through the gate to the core worlds, Atlas are great. And ofc, super late game capital fleets love atlases.
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2022, 01:20:21 AM »

High Resolution Sensors on logistics capitals is really, really, really good. Same for survey mods.

You can do a similar trick with Colossus MkIII (which is technically a cruiser!) though I never managed to make those work in combat. Too slow to reposition, too fragile to stand and deliver, too scuffed to be a support carrier.
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Kriby

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2022, 02:58:10 AM »

Is it worth grabbing mil subsystems when you have that industry skill that gives +2 burn to civilian grade ships (w/o mil subsystems)?
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Maeleth

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2022, 03:12:48 AM »

Well, I have to disagree with you, OP.
It's a capital ship, which will considerably slow you down (even with burn 20 penalties do still apply to the difficult terrain movement) and put a dent in your supply/fuel economy. Early game you can't really afford it (both the price of a ship and its logistical profile), and you're not limited by the 30 ships cap. Destroyer sized haulers are good enough, while Shepherd is a top tier pick with Converted Fighter Bays+Expanded Cargo Holds combo.

Late game (or past the first few years if you're not a complete newbie) credits become practically worthless, thus there is no reason to pick up anything besides supplies and fuel. If you absolutely love to roam outside the Core with the full 300DP fleet for months and months then yeah, I can totally see the appeal. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to haul around this slow, vulnerable, fuel guzzling monstrosity.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 03:14:26 AM by Maeleth »
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Amoebka

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2022, 03:17:05 AM »

Larger haulers are more supply/fuel efficient than smaller ones, assuming you actually use their full capacity. The real issue is that you rarely need that much storage when exploring. 2000 metals sell for sell than one gamma core. It's comforting to not leave stuff behind, but it doesn't really get you many credits.
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Draba

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2022, 03:47:01 AM »

Is it worth grabbing mil subsystems when you have that industry skill that gives +2 burn to civilian grade ships (w/o mil subsystems)?
I generally don't use militarized subsystems later on.
Augmented drive field + insulated engine assembly already gives enough speed and gets sensor profile down, without taking up military DP budget (relevant for skill scaling, and IIRC bonus XP for battle difficulty but not 100%).
Highres sensors, augmented drive field, insulated engine assembly, solar shielding is my go to and adding efficiency overhaul with best of the best. Early on usually getting surveying equipment and miltarized subsystems.

For the main post yep, for me Atlas/Prometheus are very high on the priority list on starting a new game and they are fully s-modded as soon as I get them.


Larger haulers are more supply/fuel efficient than smaller ones, assuming you actually use their full capacity. The real issue is that you rarely need that much storage when exploring. 2000 metals sell for sell than one gamma core. It's comforting to not leave stuff behind, but it doesn't really get you many credits.
Stations/ruins generally have lots of ~50-200 cr/unit cargo and even supplies/heavy machinery can add up, that should cover the exra cost compared to a smaller ship a few times over.
You get better surveying/salvage capacity/sensors in return, very convenient.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 03:59:55 AM by Draba »
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Specht

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2022, 10:55:24 AM »

Expanded cargo holds on a civilian ship like this makes it consume more supplies so I just put efficiency overhaul on it. Also consider that if you take bulk transport civilian ships get +2 burn level this includes Atlas, prometheus including their MK 2 variants so you may not need augemented drive field anymore nor more tug boats
Is it worth grabbing mil subsystems when you have that industry skill that gives +2 burn to civilian grade ships (w/o mil subsystems)?

Military subsystems negate the civilian grade hull thus making the operating cost "normal" again.

With that setup the maintenance cost is 5 and fuel cost is 3.5 with 2886 cargo which is way more efficient than anything smaller. The capital bonus to scan range and burn 9 prevent you from being caught.

The only downside is the big sensor profile. (Thanks for the insulated engines tip - didnt know that one)

As I mentioned I am playing the scavenger/trader guy this time. No Paragon flexing or raiding for me :)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 11:00:31 AM by Specht »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2022, 11:57:06 AM »

Configuration does vary a bit with what you're concerned about.  I personally feel like the supplies running cost of an Atlas is small enough compared to it's capacity that's I just tend to ignore it as a balancing factor.  Militarized subsystems is good for sensors (+75 on a capital logistics ship if you're not running 5 combat capitals already), profile (150 is a non-trivial improvement) and burn speed.  If you've taken Salvaging instead of Bulk Transport, it's probably the best choice.

Keep in mind, Militarized subsystems does doubles the minimum crew required, bumping an Atlas or Prometheus from 50 to 100, which when multiplied by crew salary of 10 credits, is a 500 credit a month bump in running costs, although credits don't take up cargo space like supplies.  If you're using Makeshift equipment, going from 5 supplies to 7.5 supplies because you added Expanded Cargo holds is actually cheaper (~250 plus 30% tax is still only 325 credits) to run without militarized subsystems.  Even going from 10 to 15 is only 500 credits a month if you're typically buying off the black market.  Making it break even either way, in term of running costs.

In my combat fleets for example, I stay away from Militarized subsystems, since I don't want my fleet wide combat boosts to be diluted.  I often take insulated engine assembly to keep signature reasonable (not good, but reasonable) instead of militarized subsystems.  But in a lightweight exploration fleet, it can potentially make a lot of sense improving three useful stats.

Well, I have to disagree with you, OP.
It's a capital ship, which will considerably slow you down (even with burn 20 penalties do still apply to the difficult terrain movement) and put a dent in your supply/fuel economy. Early game you can't really afford it (both the price of a ship and its logistical profile), and you're not limited by the 30 ships cap. Destroyer sized haulers are good enough, while Shepherd is a top tier pick with Converted Fighter Bays+Expanded Cargo Holds combo.

Late game (or past the first few years if you're not a complete newbie) credits become practically worthless, thus there is no reason to pick up anything besides supplies and fuel. If you absolutely love to roam outside the Core with the full 300DP fleet for months and months then yeah, I can totally see the appeal. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to haul around this slow, vulnerable, fuel guzzling monstrosity.


While I agree capital ships will have more terrain penalties, slowing you down, and the logistics capitals have a max burn speed of 9 without skills, I don't see how it puts a dent in your supply/fuel economy.  Can you give an example?

The supply and crew costs of the capital logistic ships are about in line with a combat destroyer, which certainly can be afforded at the beginning of the game.  Fuel usage is a bit more than a combat cruiser, but the Atlas comes with 400 fuel capacity, for a 67 light year range, 65% better than a Shepherd.  If you only need 150 or 300 cargo, then two Shepherds or a cargo destroyer is enough, but if you're trying to deliver 1,000 supplies and 500 drugs to a pirate base in deficit, the Atlas starts looking pretty efficient to me.  Or pulling in the loot from 2-3 orbital habitats on a long exploration run.  Those types of opportunities are available from the start of the game.  In addition, contact trade missions scale to your cargo capacity.  The more you have, the more you make.

Just to put some numbers down, 6 Shepherds with Expanded Cargo hold and Converted fighter bay carry 180 cargo each, and individually cost 4.5 supplies and 1 fuel/ly.  Or times 6, 1080 cargo for 27 supplies/month and 6 fuel/light year.  They reduce survey costs by 30.  Spending a story point or two on the Atlas (as opposed to 6 or 12 for the Shepherds), can add survey capability as well, reducing costs by 40.  10 or 15 supplies for 2600 cargo space and the same fuel costs sounds like a pretty efficient deal to me.  And 2600 cargo space is definitely usable inside the core for trading.  If we're talking about massed Atlases, like 5 or 10, then that is quite likely overkill with 13,000 to 26,000 cargo space, but 1 Atlas will definitely replace a small fleet of frigate and destroyer logistic ships economically.  Still like a pure hound fleet with Bulk transport for smuggling operations though.

Although, I haven't tried finding a contact trade mission with 10 Atlases in tow.  I should try that sometime.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2022, 12:58:02 PM »

I find 2 atlases is a nice amount of cargo for general purpose exploration if you take industry skills. With the supply and fuel upkeep reductions, you will literally be throwing away fuel and heading home only because your cargo is full (and I mean full of stuff worth more than metals), so having tons of cargo just means you can stay out exploring for longer. Selling a full haul of random mid value goods is usually worth a few hundred thousand if you looks for shortages and sell on the black market, and sometimes you hit the jackpot heavy weapons or drugs stash in some ruins and make bank. I explore with a full combat fleet and still can stay out until my cargo full most of the time.

Access to 100-200k+ reward cargo missions is also quite nice when you find them. I would like to have atlases around the time when I get cruisers, although I definitely consider using them even earlier given the opportunity.

IMO, the main reasons to not take an atlas early are sensor profile, which is quite painful without militarized subsystems, even when you have cruisers, and burn, which can be solved with skills or with augmented drive field. The sensor issues are likely enough to discourage you if you want to smuggle, but for exploration, I think atlas is the best choice.

I will say that I think expanded cargo holds on an atlas is pretty bad though. It gives you 200 extra cargo for 5 supplies/month (compared to the atlas giving base 2000 cargo for 10 supplies/month). I would rather just take a second atlas, or even a colossus or buffalo if I really need a bit of extra cargo. I would much rather have other logistics hullmods.

I've started using story points on logistics ships much more frequently to get big efficiency haulers in my fleet early on by using s-mods to get a few extra logistics hullmods to offset the downsides. I also like to s-mod a few tugs to keep 20 sustained burn without needing to put ADF on my big combat ships while also not completely ruining my sensor profile or fuel consumption. It really needs MS + insulated engines to be usable IMO, and sometimes I also s-mod efficiency overhaul, although I think it's probably not worth it. I'm considering giving Ox 6 OP just to fit two 3 OP hullmods for convenience lol.
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Atlas - Most useful ship in the game?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2022, 01:46:19 PM »

Spending story points as early as possible speeds up leveling, so doing it on smaller logistics ships makes a lot of sense.

Bypassing the 2 logistics hullmod limit doesn't, but it's cool/fun so why not I guess!
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