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Author Topic: Burn Drive (toggled) AI Issue  (Read 506 times)

Timid

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Burn Drive (toggled) AI Issue
« on: January 15, 2022, 10:18:32 PM »

I've been able to easily replicate this.

Give ANY ship with toggled burn drive AI but LR weapons (in this test I did Enforcer and Dominator equipped with >1000 range ballistics)

Watch it legit just burn drive completely just to "close the gap" when it should probably just rely on maintain_strike_range or manuever_range flags (where it states something else like an appropriate 1000 range) to stop. This is extremely damaging vs Sunder HIL variants which the Sunder takes a free pot shot and immediately destroys the ship.

I get it, it's hard for the Burn Drive AI to determine when to not use it especially when its shields are off how can it know it might be tanking a reaper or a HIL...

But I find it annoying that if you fit the ship for long-range it will continue to close the gap at around 600 range from the enemy ship consistently rather than 1000 or 800...

Thaago

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Re: Burn Drive (toggled) AI Issue
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2022, 10:26:12 PM »

Does LR mean Long ranged? If this easily replicates, please give a defined scenario (ship loadout vs enemies in simulator, or a save right before a battle) where it replicates to identify possible bugs/so concrete changes can be made.

I'll note that because burn drive has a long cooldown and is on slow ships, it often is the best move to burn in far closer than the maximum weapon range of the ship, because the retreating enemy will otherwise get away during the cooldown. It is very situation dependent though I agree - burning into HILs/Reapers is no good at all.

My own issue with burn drive is that the AI will often deactivate it too much, so the complete opposite! I feel like they are sometimes too cautious and only activate it for a single second and are then stuck with the long cooldown. I have a hard time getting it to replicate well though, so it could just be biased remembrance on my part.
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Timid

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Re: Burn Drive (toggled) AI Issue
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 11:16:40 PM »

Does LR mean Long ranged? If this easily replicates, please give a defined scenario (ship loadout vs enemies in simulator, or a save right before a battle) where it replicates to identify possible bugs/so concrete changes can be made.

I'll note that because burn drive has a long cooldown and is on slow ships, it often is the best move to burn in far closer than the maximum weapon range of the ship, because the retreating enemy will otherwise get away during the cooldown. It is very situation dependent though I agree - burning into HILs/Reapers is no good at all.

Sure, take the Support Dominator build that's in vanilla right now. Test it vs any ship in simulator and you will find it prematurely stops

With Gauss Cannon (1200) + ITU (+40%), this gives the support dominator somewhere around 1600 range per say

but ideally sure just stop at 1200 range then that's ok.

Okay what about those light needlers (700) and light assault gun (700) with ITU (+40%) giving us roughly ~1000 range. Could that be the case why the burn drive AI stops at around 900-1000 range?

So I removed them off the Dominator Support variant and it still does the exact same thing, despite only having TWO gauss cannons as its main weaponry.

My own issue with burn drive is that the AI will often deactivate it too much, so the complete opposite!
I feel this can be mitigated by the fact that ending burn drive early should give you a lower cooldown.

Like yeah if you use the entire burn drive duration, 10s cd. If you only wanted to use it for 1 second, ok it's a 6s cd (10s-4s duration left)

TaLaR

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Re: Burn Drive (toggled) AI Issue
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2022, 03:20:29 AM »

AI can't intentionally fight at long range. It may happen accidentally due to sub-optimal actions of both sides involved though.

Timid AI will hover around max radar detection range, contributing nothing useful to the fight (too far even for carriers).

Cautious AI is easily spooked even before enemy can start shooting (so will break when a 1000 range enemy is at around 1200). This is unusable for combat ships. You'd thing this AI would be useful on carriers, but carriers prefer to stick around allied combat ships as highest priority, and in worst case scenario are willing to move through area in front of an enemy Onslaught to reach an ally.

Steady AI will initially use it's range advantage, BUT approach up to point blank if it starts winning the flux war. Which usually leads to approach-retreat cycle against an enemy with better close range weapons.

Aggressive and Reckless AI will always approach up to point blank. Difference being that aggressive will fallback if losing flux war, Reckless will not.
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