Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8

Author Topic: Vanguard is terrible  (Read 17302 times)

Null Ganymede

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2022, 03:25:11 AM »

counterpoint
[close]
Don't need officer or s-mods, just 100% CR. Every turret in a separate weapon group.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23988
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2022, 11:52:18 AM »

The dampener also more or less acts as a safe flux vent for the ship.
I find the concept of using the dampener to vent to be laughable.

@Locklave: That's quite rude. Please be more respectful towards other forum members in the future.
Logged

Locklave

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2022, 02:40:19 AM »

The dampener also more or less acts as a safe flux vent for the ship.
I find the concept of using the dampener to vent to be laughable.

@Locklave: That's quite rude. Please be more respectful towards other forum members in the future.

I disagree. You are assuming the context is specifically directed at the person and not directed at the idea presented.

My experience as stated is the ship explodes long before a vent would be required making venting as a whole a non issue. Thus funny.

If Haresus felt attacked by my statement, apologies, but I wasn't attacking him or intending rudeness directed at him. He also wasn't the only one to mention this if I'm correct, also part of why I didn't directly quote him.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 02:41:50 AM by Locklave »
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23988
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2022, 08:50:35 AM »

The context is there whether or not you intended it, and since your comment was clearly based on the statements made by others about it, it's hard to see it as anything but a response to them. I appreciate you making an apology, though.
Logged

Locklave

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2022, 02:39:32 AM »

Vanguard is basically a Centurion with a Shield Shunt. 50% more supplies usage, also more expensive to purchase. Shield Shunt being a hull mod of questionable value in the first place.

I'm not being hyperbolic here, Vanguard is so bad I will not use it in my fleet. It's a detriment to my fleet by taking up a slot and crew/supply losses when it is inevitably destroyed in every single battle with a actually dangerous enemy.

If people want to pretend it's in a okay place, that it's got it's uses, feel free to pretend that. It's a cool ship, I like the concept, but it doesn't do it's job to an acceptable level.
Logged

Null Ganymede

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2022, 04:23:17 AM »

100% of flux output being dumped into eight ballistics is better than "okay".
fleet and skills
[close]
Put first two skill points into combat to get ITU and IPDAI, then respec leadership. Get free repairs from industry if you're not swimming in supplies from crushing enemy fleets.
combat results vs redacted
[close]
It's a vanilla pirate meatgrinder and holds its own versus questionably-balanced modded pirates. Build in enough point defense and it holds its own versus missile-happy major factions. Give it some interceptor cover/RFC/solar shielding and it will do fine in the presence of EMP damage and high tech fighter swarms.

The only things that volley them with no chance to retreat are very infrequent damper fields in front of Reapers or sitting in front of elite cruisers/capitals. If it happens, whatever, that's what the built-in hullmod is for. They roll up flanks nicely.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 04:33:21 AM by Null Ganymede »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2022, 04:47:59 AM »

It is not great, but not useless.  If I want frigates I do not mind dying, I am more willing to use Vanguard instead of or in addition to more valuable frigates.  With Hull Restoration and Field Repairs, I have recovered them from pirates, armed them up while on the field, then send them back into battle.
Logged

Bummelei

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2022, 08:02:54 AM »

Vanguard is useful in the early game, if you can scavenge a pirate one. But it quickly falls off in the midgame.
It's not a good ship when before every combat you need to decide to deploy it or not, if enemy has CV's, HE guns, or any sort of energy weapons.
And they still keep dying anyways, whether aforementioned threats presented or not!
It can't stand against any cruiser, and a half of the destroyers. And it's cost is higher than of a centurion in 3 to 4 times, and latter have a better survivability as well.
Logged

lyravega

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2022, 10:29:04 AM »

Officered scarabs are my go-to for frigates.
I like Omens with officers. 'Systems Expertise' + 'Target Analysis+' + 'Point Defense+' officers to be precise. Then you give them a short PD weapon, possibly one you get from a [REDACTED]. They'll just toy around with their prey, till the big brothers join the fight :D
Logged

Locklave

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2022, 02:17:26 PM »

Officered scarabs are my go-to for frigates.
I like Omens with officers. 'Systems Expertise' + 'Target Analysis+' + 'Point Defense+' officers to be precise. Then you give them a short PD weapon, possibly one you get from a [REDACTED]. They'll just toy around with their prey, till the big brothers join the fight :D

You should try Monitors with officers, it can go toe to toe with monster ships. Go with an anti shield weapon and watch a Brilliant burn out on flux just trying to get it's shields down.

100% of flux output being dumped into eight ballistics is better than "okay".

I was imprecise in my statement. I mean to say relative to the intended role of the ship.

It's meant to be a premium heavy low tech frigate. Something that should be able to hold up against top tier enemies relatively well for it's size, like the a Tempest (even with the current drones issue that will be fixed) or an Omen/Monitor/Centurion/Scarab/Hyperion ect. It should punch up, it can only punch down. Throw it against pretty much anything Redacted and it explodes, also depending on what weapons a normal fleet might have it may also get wrecked.

It's painfully conditional if and when it would be considered better then okay.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 02:59:00 PM by Locklave »
Logged

Null Ganymede

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2022, 03:55:27 PM »

I posted combat logs of it punching up vs the 2nd most dangerous faction in the game.
Logged

Locklave

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2022, 04:47:16 PM »

I posted combat logs of it punching up vs the 2nd most dangerous faction in the game.

Of your modded game.
Logged

Null Ganymede

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2022, 05:33:47 PM »

It's a vanilla ship and fit. Mods in use make Pirates significantly harder. Lots of ships with elite flux/armor/mobility stats from LTA, damage boosted ion cannon drones that respawn too fast to tank carrier's replacement rate with frigates, surprise antimatter blasters.

Vanguard handles all that fine.
Logged

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2022, 07:33:17 PM »

Even when it doesn't die, it costs 4-5x the supplies of another frigate to repair the armor and hull damage. It might not be useless, but I don't see how it competes with better frigates.
Logged

Null Ganymede

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Vanguard is terrible
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2022, 04:10:24 AM »

Better frigates get flux locked, die to fighters, and don't have 8 small ballistics. Watch an IPDAI one snipe salamanders and harpoons with its light mortars and you'll understand.

It's not a wolfpack frigate with a medium energy mount and stacked 20% damage bonuses; it will never be an opportunistic close-quarters cruiser and capital killer. Ballistic weapons (aside from meme point defense builds) dominate mid to long range. For 6 DP you're clearing a zone of fighters and missiles while killing most frigates, bullying destroyers, and occasionally swarming a solo cruiser.

Field Repairs covers basic battle damage and 35% of recovery costs. Think of the Vanguard as most of the point defense of an Omen, the frigate killing and destroyer pressure of a Tempest, and the peak performance time of a mid-game SO frigate. For 6 DP and an occasional 20 supply repair cost.

If you've been exploiting the wolfpack meta with close-range energy builds, yeah, the Vanguard is terrible at that.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8