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[Yubbin]

Currently, the Vanguard is a bit under-powered. With burn drive and it's speed, it is innately fun to fly, but lacks damage. The main problem with it is damper field is it's main defense, and when it is using damper field, it can't fire. In fights, the Vanguard burn drives in, ready to fight, then it uses damper field, and nothing comes out. The enemy is firing at it, and it is taking 66% less damage, but not firing back. This means that in most duels, for the Vanguard to be able to kill it's enemy, it has to take considerable damage, because it has to shoot with damper field off. After talking with some other people, I think the solution to this would be to let the Vanguard fire while damper field is on, but add a different drawback to using damper field, like a high activation flux cost. This sounds very powerful (and it is), but this fulfills the intended role of the Vanguard, a low-tech elite frigate.

[Megas]

The problem with small ships designed to be expendable like Vanguard is it becomes a d-mod sink for Hull Restoration to work on.  I want Hull Restoration to fix up big and/or elite ships I may lose in combat, not expendables like Vanguard that are built to die.

I avoid Vanguard when I have Hull Restoration.

[SafariJohn]

Between Hull Restoration and Rugged Construction, you shouldn't have to worry about D-mods very often even when it does die. If you are really concerned you could restore it - it's just a frigate.

[Megas]

Between Hull Restoration and Rugged Construction, you shouldn't have to worry about D-mods very often even when it does die. If you are really concerned you could restore it - it's just a frigate.

What I mean is I want my more valuable ships (like Remnant ships I picked up in the fringe) restored, not a crash test dummy (Vanguard).  I do not want to restore crash test dummy, and even if I want to, I may be far from a dock.  I do not want to stop what I want to do and fix a frigate.  I probably would scuttle the Vanguard, or better yet, not use it and use something less prone to death.

If Vanguard dies all of the time, because was designed to play like a zombie, and has d-mods frequently, then it can get picked for d-mod removal instead of more important ships (those I recover from the enemies and/or my ships that were killed in battle and unlucky enough to get d-mods).

[Kriby]

Is the Vanguard supposed to be good? I've seen them play the damage sponge role in enemy fleets pretty well where it's distracting larger ship classes for a good while. But outside of the damper field I've been giving them about as much attention as a LP/P Hound.

If they're supposed to be above chaff the damper field AI mindgames seem at least skewed in the right direction, since its enemies like to burn out their flux firing at it. I can see it being a bit oppressive if the damper field gets overtuned.

[Grievous69]

Idk it seems pretty good to me, at least in most parts of the game. Once the heavy weapons start showing up like HILs of Tach lances, then it becomes useless I'd say. But I've used them a lot in the early and mid game, they work well and do what they're supposed to do. And that's being the most annoying little thing that shoots at you 90% of the time.

[SafariJohn]

Between Hull Restoration and Rugged Construction, you shouldn't have to worry about D-mods very often even when it does die. If you are really concerned you could restore it - it's just a frigate.

If Vanguard dies all of the time, ... and has d-mods frequently

I was not 100% clear, I guess. Rugged Construction gives 50% chance to avoid d-mods and Hull Restoration gives another 80-90% chance to avoid, so a Vanguard has like a 95% chance to not even get a d-mod when it gets destroyed.

[Megas]

Is the Vanguard supposed to be good? I've seen them play the damage sponge role in enemy fleets pretty well where it's distracting larger ship classes for a good while. But outside of the damper field I've been giving them about as much attention as a LP/P Hound.

If they're supposed to be above chaff the damper field AI mindgames seem at least skewed in the right direction, since its enemies like to burn out their flux firing at it. I can see it being a bit oppressive if the damper field gets overtuned.

The intent, according to the blog, was to be a low-tech "premium frigate option", which I understand to mean on par with Tempest and Scarab.

Currently, Vanguard feels like another redshirt-tier frigate no better than Lasher, Centurion, or Wolf.

[Haresus]

I have one Vanguard in my fleet and it has been pretty useful. Three missile slots isn't bad at all, and the ship has more than enough OP for expanded missile racks. Add in an officer with the missile skill, and suddenly you have a torpedo boat. It's also fast and tough, so survivability hasn't been too awful despite the lack of shields.

I've been pleasantly surprised by its performance. Better than a Wolf, better than a Lasher. Probably not as good as one of the 8DP frigates, but it's not supposed to be.

[bowman]

I was running them in my fleet for a significant part of my campaign and eventually had 8 of them as my entire frigate lineup. They died pretty often, but they also did their job: disruption and protecting flanks, incredibly well. Even when I was losing 2-4 of them per battle (Notably, I was fighting Ordos or similarly-dangerous groups) I think across all my playing post Hull Restoration, they probably acquired 10 or less dmods ever, as a total for all of them, across all battles. I'm not fully seeing the concern of them eating Restoration slots, given my experience with them. Imo, they aren't really duelists (at least in a larger setting) exactly because of Damper Field turning off their weapons. Their best use-case is in duos or trios, since then one dampers while getting shot and the others beat the crap out of whatever dares to fire toward their friend.

I really think they're perfectly fine as-is in terms of strength. The only thing that would be kind of nice is not losing ~4000 credits in supplies every time they die (well, pre-field-repairs instant increase on salvaged ships' hull/CR, so probably more like 2600 credits or so). Now, monetarily, this is irrelevant- especially for the era I was at in my run: money was limitless to me. The issue is, more generally, that if they die then they're effectively a ~20-30 DP deployment and that is much less worth. I don't mind them dying, but I do mind their effective DP/supply cost being equal to a cruiser when they do so. Maybe let rugged construction double the effectiveness of field repairs? Or just have its own proc of 20-40%? I dunno, maybe it's just the downside that must be dealt with when fielding them but I'm curious what others think.

TL;DR I don't think they need a combat buff, but maybe a logistical one for the cost of repairing a KO'd one. Best used in groups so one dampers while others fire. They have such a low chance to gain dmods with Hull Restoration + Rugged that I don't see how they'd really eat procs even with 4 dying every battle.

[TontonBoo]

Best used in groups so one dampers while others fire.

And there my problem was. Fielding them one at a time. It was explained elsewhere I tried and it works. Just came here to say so but seems there's no need.

I was running them in my fleet for a significant part of my campaign and eventually had 8 of them as my entire frigate lineup

I usually do that with Lashers and now I have to try it your way. Or a mix of both. Ain't low tech clunkers just the best ? If they survive the opening round they just dance.